riverside_sara_& corey _ mar 10, 2025 001_the_deep specializa
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[00:00:00] The only thing that nobody can take away from you and nobody can copy ~you with~ is your relationships. ~Yes, we use gifting as a vehicle to do that, but it really is all about relationships, relationship marketing,~ and we believe that relationships can take you places traditional marketing can't.
If people know, like, and trust you, and they are referring you business, how do you appreciate that? So that hopefully they continue doing that for you.
It's one thing to send someone, ~let's call it, you know, some,~ some amazing knives. It's another thing to go the extra mile and add that engraving, that personalization, the video, the handwritten card.
"It's not the thought that counts. It's the thoughtful thought that counts." You can harmlessly start a conversation with anyone and eventually transition it to business.
Today, I'm joined by the Community Relationship Specialist of The Giftology Group, Sarah Hardwick. She's here to talk [00:01:00] about the late, great John Rulon's new book, Beyond Giftology.
I am a huge fan of John's work, and he's a friend of mine, and he, I must say, Total transparency, he's made a big impact on my life professionally and personally. So I am thrilled to have you here, Sarah, to honor his, him, and also share with my audience, the new book. Welcome Sarah. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much.
Um, I'm so grateful to be here honoring John in this way. We, as a team at Giftology are so grateful for. Yeah. So for those listeners who may not be familiar with John and Giftology and the work that he's, uh, put out in the world. Could you provide just a quick background on, on the company and the mission?
Absolutely. Um, my favorite way to start [00:02:00] that story is telling a little bit of John's background. Um, John, while he grew up in Ohio as an Ohio farm boy, as he always said, you know, milking goats and all that good stuff, um, really just learned the value of relationships and built his business, Giftology, on that.
While yes, we are a gifting company, we help large companies, small business owners, all the things, better their investment in their relationships through strategic gifting and relationship planning. Um, it goes beyond that. It's about How can we add value to the people that invest in us and can help our business and our life be more fruitful?
Um, and that was John's mission behind Giftology. Yes, we use gifting as a vehicle to do that, but it really is all about relationships, relationship marketing, and we believe that relationships can take you places traditional marketing can't. [00:03:00] Hmm. So, John and Giftology, really your group, have a acronym.
It's called ROR and it's different from ROI. Could you talk a little about what ROR means and what that's all about? Yeah, so everyone knows ROI, right? Of course. Um, return on investment. We track that, uh, very strategically in a lot of our businesses and things like that. But ROR is an acronym that John created.
That's return on relationship. Um, so, same principle of how are we investing in people and what's the return on that. Now, this isn't meaning that invest in people just to get something out of it. It's not a tit for tat strategy. Um, but it very much kind of hones in on this point that relationships. are a strategy and we can get [00:04:00] return, um, in our business.
We can grow in our business by investing in people. Um, it is a little bit more of a long game than sometimes, you know, Facebook ads. Put some sense in, get a lead out. But return on relationship means more and can grow your business, uh, exponentially. And so how is the new book, Beyond Giftology, Yeah. So if anyone hasn't read Giftology, John's first book, it very much shifted the mindset of a lot of business leaders about, How they use gifting, um, in their relationships, you know.
The typical analysis of the book is like, don't put logos on the gifts. Don't send at anniversaries, birthdays, Christmas, right? Like, people, [00:05:00] people got that from the book, which is great. And I think it did shift the mindset of how gifting can be used and how it can be done better. What Beyond Giftology does is really hone in on the point that it's not about the gifts.
And that's something that John actually always used to say while he wrote the book Giftology and owned a gifting company. Um, no one cares about the stupid gifts, he would always say. The gifts were a delivery vehicle for the emotion. And there's a lot of other ways to invoke emotion in a relationship.
to invoke loyalty, and that's really what Beyond Giftology goes into. Past that as well, what are the systems inside your business that you can set up to make sure that you are taking care of your relationships? Whether that's, you have a plan for gifting or you are better communicating with your referral partners.
What are those tactical steps that you can take [00:06:00] within your own business, within your team, um, to really take relationships seriously and build referral partners? I would love to get into some of those systems and really, really get to understand what those are looking like in the book, but before we do, maybe some more context setting around this, this quote that happens, it's a lot, it occurs a lot in the book, which is that relationships can take you places that marketing can't.
So where, what are the limitations of marketing and where does relationships really sort of. Yeah, John in this book and, um, you know, throughout his business kind of made traditional marketing like the enemy for us, right? Um, I think the main thing here is with all of the noise in the world today, with everyone posting on social media and using LinkedIn, um, What are the ways that we can connect with people off of those [00:07:00] platforms?
Some of the limitations of traditional marketing as well is, a lot of times, the people that you want to be in front of aren't making decisions based on what they see in an email newsletter or what they see online on social media. They're making decisions based on introductions of a trusted source. I mean, even in real life, while yes, social media can be used when I am choosing which hairstylist to go to, most of the time I text my best friend to ask who is her hairstylist.
I trust that more. And I think that really is the, the limitation of, Uh, where we think of marketing today, uh, relationships can be a marketing strategy and we just need to put some more thought, energy, systems, investment behind it. There's a great quote that I, I'm reminded of, which is, it was actually a, an article in Harvard Business Review, which talked about the fact that 80 to 90 percent of B2B [00:08:00] buyers have a day one list, which is a short list of options that they get from, guess who, from their relationships, right?
And you need to get, you want to find a new hairstylist or a new agency or a new attorney. You don't go and check out LinkedIn. You go and ask your trusted friends who have been in a similar bind. Exactly. And, and that's like, I, I'm in the process of wedding planning right now, for example, everything that my friends have said to me and my planner has recommended.
That's who I'm using. Um, you know, social media is also a little bit of fool's gold, uh, nowadays with everyone being able to create this really amazing ex aesthetic brand. Sure. Um, but especially when it comes to, to the service-based industry, yes. Recommendations are so important. Yeah. It's, it's not hard today to, today to produce AI driven or created copy in the voice of, let's [00:09:00] say like a Dan Kennedy or like these amazing copywriters that leverage all of their experience and best practices and tone and all those things.
All of a sudden that becomes a plant level playing field, right? That's no longer a differentiator. Yeah, and Corey, that's something also John writes about in the book. I think he basically says like, it's kind of like social media sharecropping. Like, you are building your platform, your brand, right, on someone else's platform, on someone else's land.
Um, I mean, what happened earlier in 2024 with TikTok and everything, right? Like, that can be taken away at any moment. The only thing that Nobody can take away from you and nobody can copy you with is your relationships. That's one thing that you can have. Let's get into some of the tactics based on all of that context.
Let's start with the relationship partnership training system. Can you talk about what that is? Yeah, um, it kind of outlines this [00:10:00] whole system of how do you go from having a list of relationships, key clients, or key network partners, and actually bringing them through a strategic step by step system to build them into a partner.
So a lot of people have heard the word like raving fans, right? Champion. How do we get them from just being a connection of yours to actually being a raving fan, a champion, a referral partner of you? And then also, how do we encourage that behavior to be repeated? So the system kind of breaks down in the book as.
You're prospecting those potential partners. What's the system to do that? Then we call it clearing the runway. How do you actually qualify those potential partners so that you're strategic about what relationships you're investing in? And then, how do you perpetuate your referral givers? How do you perpetuate those givers to [00:11:00] give more?
If people know, like, and trust you, and they are referring you business, how do you appreciate that? So that hopefully they continue doing that for you. So what about those folks who say, well, yeah, you know, relationships are great, but these things, you know, these things take time. You know, trust, you gotta trust, build trust over a long period of time to get these referrals.
Requires a lot of effort like how do you address some of those practical concerns about you know? Hey, I need some results this quarter not in you know next year. How do you how do you think about those things? Yeah, well, so people are right there is a little bit more of a long game when it comes to relationship building But what I will say is us putting a system behind this Most people don't have a relationship plan or a referral system to truly energize is the word that we use.
Energize those relationships into referral partners in a way that can [00:12:00] speed up the process, that can speed up loyalty. Um, some of those ways that we do that is having those strategic conversations. Not just picking up the phone and asking for referrals because you have a list of relationships in front of you and your boss told you to.
Um, so, planning out those strategic conversations, planning out how you are going to strategically reach out to the relationships, and being able to follow up strategically, that should expedite the process for you a little bit. ~What is, what are some of the Or, um, ~what does a strategic conversation like that look like?
~What, what is, how do you handle, or how do you,~ how do you have that type of conversation? Yeah. we call it a clarity conversation. So most of the time, the reason why somebody isn't referring you business isn't because they don't know you or because they don't like you or they don't trust you. Like a lot of times, maybe it's our clients, right?
We know that they know, like, and trust us. They use us. Why aren't they referring us business? Um, and a lot of times it's just because there is a gap in [00:13:00] communication of, I don't know how to refer you. I don't know what to say when I am referring you. And what that clarity conversation does is, Sets them up for success to hopefully kind of plant that seed of being a referral partner for you and understand the big four is written in the book.
What you do, who you serve, what you don't do, and who you don't serve. Um, so being able to articulate those things and give people clarity around how they can refer you business. Hopefully, we'll spark them into action a lot quicker. So what's that context, though? Let's say you have a list, you mentioned earlier, you have a list of potential referral partners, folks who want to help support you.
How do you get that conversation going? Oh, harmless starters. I'm using, like, all of our buzzwords in the book, so if anyone picks up the book after this, um, hopefully you'll, you'll see these, [00:14:00] too. That just really is, um, our way of saying, like, You can harmlessly start a conversation with anyone and eventually transition it to business.
But I always pick on, unfortunately, real estate agents in this scenario as typically they pick up the phone and the first thing they do is, Hey, do you know anyone who's looking to buy or sell? That's not how we harmlessly start a referral conversation. The first reach out should probably be like, Hey, I just drove past this restaurant.
I remember we got lunch a few years ago there. Would love to catch up soon. What are some ways that you can just connect with that person again? in a purely relational way, um, a gratitude text, right? Just thinking of you, really grateful for our friendship or our relationship. Those sorts of harmless starters is what can then lead to more strategic referral partner conversations down the road.
The clarity [00:15:00] conversation, potentially. The clarity conversation, exactly. Excellent. So, uh, I'm reminded of Adam Grant when he wrote his bestselling book, Give and Take. The, one of the best concepts in there was about this five minute favor, right? Yes. Yes. And you guys have developed your own practice called dooving.
Close, Corey. D O V ing. That's so good. I've got to go back and tell my team that. Let's do that. Let's do that. Dooving. Dooving. I'm coining that one, yes. Yeah, we should switch it to that, honestly. Nobody's heard, nobody's heard about it yet. It's just in the book. So, Dooving's fine. Okay. Tell me about what that is.
Um, yeah. So a lot of people know about the five minute favor, which is probably a little bit easier to pronounce. We all know those, those words. Um, but. But our spin on that is, um, DOVing. So how are you demonstrating value, demonstrations [00:16:00] of value, that acronym, in your relationships? Um, the five minute favor is a great way to do that, but there's also ways that you can kind of plan out how you DOV.
Um, how you demonstrate value in relationships. For example, if you have time on your calendar every single Friday to write five handwritten notes, that's a way that you demonstrate value in a relationship. Corey, I'm sure you've received so many video messages from John. Um, that's a way of demonstrating value in a relationship.
recommending a book, right? John was the king of gifting and that absolutely is a demonstration of value But we have 20 plus ways and i'm sure there's a gazillion more of What are those smaller ways, low cost ways, that you can show this other person that they're seen, they're heard, they're appreciated, and demonstrate value in that relationship?
What are potentially some of those ideas that are [00:17:00] maybe not so expensive or something that's very actionable? Yeah. Yeah, I love the handwritten note one. I think that's so powerful and something that in our Gifting world we always include a handwritten note in gifts and that usually gives the gift more meaning anyway So just doing that on its own is an inexpensive way to truly express your gratitude The video one that John always did also awesome.
I love A spin on that is voice memos. Instead of sending an email or a long text message, just to really provide someone your personality and let them hear the gratitude and appreciation in your voice. Can be really valuable, um, and if some people like to, to pick up the phone here, I'm a Gen Z, so I like the voice memo and video option, but, um, we have some people in our community that do what they call Friday Calls of Awesome, where they just block off their calendar [00:18:00] for a few calls, and they're truly just calling people, To say, hey, you're awesome.
Hey, I saw that post on Facebook about your kid winning his soccer tournament. That's awesome. Right? Um, so being able to just block off time doesn't cost anything. I know time is money, but it doesn't cost anything from a budget perspective. We just need the systems, um, and the ability to actually spend the time to demonstrate value.
There's a great example in the book about the former PepsiCo chairman and CEO. Uh, who being, being a giftologist, someone who comes from, you know, the, the training and the book and up in the platform you guys created. She did some amazing things, something really amazing about when it comes to writing handwritten notes.
Could you share about that story? Yes. Um, this is one of my favorite stories. Yes. She wrote not only like, you know, we usually think about writing handwritten notes of appreciation to our clients or to our [00:19:00] employees even. Um, she took it a step further. further and actually wrote handwritten notes of appreciation to her employees family members, um, which basically just like creates that feedback loop of appreciation and what John always talked about is the inner circle, right?
So really being able to show up for not only that one person, but But show up and appreciate that whole family, um, that means so much. I mean, John did that to me and my family quite a few times, I have to say. My, my parents have nicer, nicer gifts than me, honestly, from, from John. Um, found out that my dad was a golfer.
He got a brand new putter, right? So those types of things, um, and that's what I remember. Um, and that's what creates loyalty to an organization or, Um, if you're a client to, to working with that individual as well, bringing the family into it. [00:20:00] And utilizing handwritten notes is an easy way to do it. So you shared before we hit record how you actually got involved with John and giftology.
Would you mind sharing that fun story? Yes, absolutely I Went to college at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and was in a career seminar my freshman year of college Where they asked us to just google something we're really passionate about and put the word gifting behind it And my best friend Chloe was actually sitting next to me And she's like, you're such a good gift giver.
Like, why don't you just Google, it's a stupid exercise, just Google gifting and put the word company behind it. So first gifting company that came up was Giftology. I didn't even know gifting companies existed. Um, but, you know, broke college student. I paid 35 a month for LinkedIn until John's, uh, little green light came on.
And when he was online, I shot him, [00:21:00] uh, A message on LinkedIn and he responded and the rest is history. So was able to connect with John in that way, build a fun relationship with him in that way and have a mentor in him through college and, and now I'm full time with the Giftology team. That's amazing. I love that story.
It's just, uh, it's feels serendipitous. It does. [00:22:00] ~ So, ~
So, in the book, jumping back into some more of these tactics, um, the book suggests several triggers or reasons for reaching out to referral partners and friends. What are some other ways maybe that we haven't discussed yet that, um, to reach out to partners to let them know you're thinking about them?
So other harmless starters, if you will, to reach out to know that you're thinking about them. Um, one system that we do teach in the book that I think helps cultivate the opportunities. to reach out to partners to tell you them you are thinking about them is have tap meetings. Um, so that's a meeting on your calendar, whether you're a small business owner, solo professional, and you have that with yourself or you have this with your whole team.
A tap meeting is where all you do is talk about partner. All you're doing [00:23:00] is talking about people. So it actually forces you to carve out time to think about those people that are important to your business, to think about the people that are important to The growth of your referral based business, right?
Um, and that's one system that I think it can easily be implemented for all of us and especially if you have a team that then creates an environment where you can start brainstorming that hey, I just noticed that So and so posted this or last week in a meeting Susie told me that they're really struggling with this Can we send her a book right?
So that then sparks conversation for you to show up for those people add value demonstrate value harmlessly start a conversation when they're least expecting it and eventually, hopefully snowball into that that relationship referral conversation I love this Sarah because I Find that if I don't have something [00:24:00] in my calendar if it's not part of a meeting agenda.
It ain't happening, right? Yeah, right all the best intentions So when I was reading the I was reading the book and yeah, there's this part about the tap meetings now every Friday with my virtual Assistant we look back on the week and we have we ask ourselves Where is there an opportunity for us to have that, that harmless, you know, outreach?
So I love this idea and now it's in the calendar. It's systematized. I don't have to think about it and it will actually be executed. So. I love it, and I love that you bring up, too, like, the agenda because I think that's a really important key of the TAP meetings, um, being that if we, you know, if you're connecting with your team and you have a time on the calendar, sometimes it's easy to just get into business as usual conversation and we're trying to put out a fire here and there's a problem here, let's talk about that.
This is truly a time where we I urge you to just talk about partners. [00:25:00] Just talk about people. It's that important. You gotta do it. Absolutely. So, uh, I'm a big fan of that. in the book, I think it was in Giftology, he talks about it's, it's not the thought that counts. It's the thoughtful thought that counts.
Yes. And I actually quote John in my, one of my workshops with that specifically because it does actually matter about the gift you send and how it's packaged and what you say in the card and all of the things we've already talked about. What are some other ideas or ways that you could elevate a gift specifically that really communicates that you, this recipient is meaningful?
Are there other ways you can do that or, or some ideas around that? Yeah, absolutely. You brought up the handwritten note, which I think is so important. But I know that something that John has spoken to you about as well is accompanying a gift with a video. So we do that for a lot of our clients as well, whether it's It's sending a [00:26:00] book with a video that's in the box that when they open it, the video of you appreciating them starts playing and they also have that gift John talked about on, on the episode that he did with you, those strong boxes that we have that are like Humungous and you open it up and it's this big grand gesture So I think just yeah Yeah, there you go And I think the the video and the actual like thoughtfulness Expressing that thoughtfulness behind it is what is so important about a gift you can do that in the handwriting You can do that in a video.
Um, or you can do that by tying it in to something important in that person's life, right? Um, a lot of the engraving that we do. Revolves around the family or revolves about something around something that's really important to that individual whether that's Their faith or their favorite book and some quotes in that so there's definitely ways to [00:27:00] elevate a typical Gift and show them that you did this not because the gift is just the thought right?
Like I just need to send them something because I'm obligated to but really like there's thoughtfulness behind this gift and why I'm sending it So John, gratefully sent me, um, some amazing knives and on the knives, there is quotes from my book that he pulled out, him and the team I'm sure pulled out and had engraved on the knives.
Those are the most used knives in our family today. They are fantastic and they are just wonderful. They're just such a wonderful gift. That, uh, I think, it was, it, when I look at the knives, obviously I see the quote and, and I see that they have Quinn, the last, our last name on it. And, I just feel proud.
I'm also reminded of my relationship with John and, and, and just the sweetness that he's brought into our, our life. So, it, it is absolutely true. It is, you know, it's, [00:28:00] it's one thing to send someone, let's call it, you know, some, some amazing knives. It's another thing to go the extra mile and be thoughtful.
And add that engraving, that personalization, the video, the handwritten card. Those are the things that make the difference. 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, and I love that you still are using and, and love the gift that John gave. Um, I think that's the case for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I, but I think to, to build on that, a lot of these important relationships that we all have in our network, um, maybe they're a high net worth individual that could literally buy whatever the heck they want.
Like, nothing that you are going to give them, um, is necessarily going to, like, blow their socks off just from a gift perspective. That's why you have to have that thoughtfulness and genuine gratitude and appreciation and express that, um, with the gift. And that's why it's impactful. So being that, you know, I'm sure you had a beautiful knife set already in your [00:29:00] kitchen, Corey.
But now that one has taken the place because it has that thoughtfulness behind it. Um, so I think those are the things that really allow people to hold on to the gift as well. Remember that person. That's a key principle in giftology of we want those people to hold on to the gift so that they think of you and hopefully by product.
ROR, um, go ahead and remember your relationship and do more business with you and refer you more business. So there's definitely a larger strategy to, um, gifting and thoughtfulness and actually making sure you're expressing the appreciation there. We talked about adding this process, the tap meetings into the agenda, into the calendar.
When you're talking about a larger company, let's say, you know, maybe 50, a hundred employees. How do you do this at scale, right? You can have maybe a CEO or an executive who does gifting, let's say to a couple of partners, [00:30:00] but. How do you actually execute this maybe company wide or on a larger scale? Yeah company wide I mean some people didn't even know John was just so relational that some people didn't even know that he owns a gifting agency So, you know when we are thinking about those larger teams and larger businesses that want to do this at a Scalable in a scalable way.
That is something that we do. You hand over a list of your key relationships, addresses, and we handle the rest when it comes from a gifting perspective. Um, but when it comes to these teams, maybe you aren't a team with a budget for that, right, to completely outsource. What I would say is really empower your team to take care of their relationships in a way that they see fit.
Now, I'm sure there's budgets that need to be set around that and things like that, but I just talked to an organization that Even, [00:31:00] they give all of their sales reps, not 50 a week to take somebody out to dinner, 50 a week to send some sort of gift, to do something and demonstrate value in an uncommon way.
Um, so just empowering your team from a top down perspective to really invest in their relationships in an uncommon way, I think can also be something that can be done at large organizations as well. Are there any sort of benchmarks or recommendations you have around how many gifts they should send to, you know, referral sources or partners per year?
Is there like a number? Is there a sweet spot? Like, what is, what would you recommend? Yeah, we say about three max per year, but maybe if you've ever been on the receiving end of some of John's gifts, it's been like, you know, one every month sometimes he used to do. So, um, for, for the general population, we say.
About three gifts max per year, especially when we are thinking about those referral partners [00:32:00] one of um those systems within that perpetuating giver's strategy is When you are following up, when somebody gives you a referral and now you need to appreciate them for that referral, don't send a gift right away.
Wait a little bit, plan out your sends of gift to that person, and don't tie it to the referral at all. This is not a thank you gift for the referral. This is purely a, exactly. This is purely a gift of appreciation. Now if someone is feeding you referrals left and right, Don't run this system every single time, right?
That's why we have that max of three gifts per year with those referral partners. Take that lump sum that you were going to spend each time and invest in a nicer gift, a heart bomb, as John would say. And when it comes to how much they should spend, obviously, you know, something as simple as a voice note or a handwritten card, there's little minimal cost there, but [00:33:00] is there sort of a budget that one should have in mind when beginning to plan to deploy this, maybe at the systematic level?
Yeah, for all the pragmatists, there's definitely a need to kind of, uh, think about, like, how much are we actually spending reinvesting in our relationships, but that's how we do break it down. It is a reinvestment into the relationship, so typically what we say, if you are doing it on a per relationship basis, so in the example I just provided with referral partners, um, that referral partner just brought in a new client.
Now that client is making you X amount of money in net profit, what is that? Net profit and invest a percentage back into that referral partner. So that's a pretty easy equation. That percentage we like to say would be at 10%. We know that's not, um, you know, like applicable to everybody, but five to 10%, five to 15% would be a good place to be.
Great. That's a great benchmark. Really easy to understand. [00:34:00] now kind of a logistical issue that I I'm curious how you guys handle when it comes to sending gifts on behalf of giftology clients, or when you recommend folks are doing this independently. how do you handle the fact that a lot of people work from home and home addresses are not published anywhere and you want to send them a physical amazing gift, whether it's a card or one of these other ideas.
How do you how do you approach that? Yeah, we definitely prefer home addresses. So you're totally right with that Not only because a lot of people work from home But we do want the gift to typically land in a space where they're ready to receive it You know if you've had a really crazy day at the office and now you have this Yeah.
gift box on your desk and you don't want to open it. Like that may ruin the experience of actually opening a gift as well. Um, but when it comes to actually getting people's home addresses, we've had people be pretty, um, strategic and fun with this. Sometimes it's just as the email is having. [00:35:00] an assistant or an admin send out a big mass email where you have a form embedded that's like, hey, we're updating our system.
Little do they know you're trying to get their home address so that you can send them a gift, right? So, um, if you are to do that, I would say plan ahead. Don't do that like December 15th because you want to send a gift on, on Christmas. Um, do that now and then plan to send a gift in October when they're not expecting it.
Very good.
It's funny we, uh, One of the, one of the things that we did a lot of my last company and also, uh, that I, I trained a lot of my clients on is doing cold gifting to high value prospects. And it's always tricky because when you send a cold gift, meaning that you don't have a previous relationship, when you don't have a relationship, you don't have the basis or the context to ask for their personal or home address.
Right. So it becomes a little tricky. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh. [00:36:00] In your case, there's a, there's a preexisting relationship. So it's gonna be a little less. Yes, and, and even, even not at that level of the cold gifting level, when we are thinking about gifting or any sort of like, um, of these things in our referral partner systems or relationship systems, like introductions is our favorite thing.
So if, if you can try to find a way to be introduced to this person in any way, shape, or form, um, we talk about it in the book as like a referral family tree, like. We're sure that somebody knows your great aunt, like you just really need to kind of like, like, look for it. Yeah, um, so trying to get introduced to that person in some way, and then maybe really wow them with a gift would be like our philosophy through the referral partner transformation system.
That makes perfect sense. So don't just send a cold gift to a bad address. Exactly, exactly. [00:37:00] Exactly. Let's talk a little bit about John's legacy, you know, um, as it relates to the, the company giftology you you've now been there and you've seen it evolve. Uh, over the years and now since, you know, since his passing, how has the company evolved and what is the sort of the current sort of focus of giftology as a business these days?
Yeah, well, you know, this best, um, we. We're a company that was based on founder led sales and John was kind of that front facing relationship builder That brought a lot in and a lot of excitement and all the things to our company and to our mission but what What he has left behind for us is a complete roadmap of how we too can take care of these relationships and build relationships so that whether that's a [00:38:00] scenario in someone else's company or it's still a founder led sales organization and they really want their team to step up and start accumulating relationships themselves and Be in that business development role, right?
Um, there's a roadmap for us to do that and we got to watch the best relationship builder there was Yeah, the the king, um doing it. So I think the fact that our company has always had the systems Behind what a lot of people just do naturally and innately which is awesome But ultimately, you know with something like this that happens we need to be able to implement Um, still with the team that we have, and we absolutely are, which is so amazing.
A lot of people don't know, but, um, John had a business partner, Rod Neuenschwander. He is absolutely incredible, um, and is still leading us and leading us here at Giftology. So, um, no doubt in my mind that the Giftology mission, our [00:39:00] company, all the things will continue to carry on John's legacy. Um, in a way that we feel really honored to do so.
Well, he, as you said, ~have left,~ has left an amazing road map. Now it's, now it's everyone's turn, right? Yeah. Is there a favorite, maybe John ism, in spending time with him? He's such a, a great guy and a wonderful character. Such a sweet, sweet man. Um, anything memorable come to mind, maybe some wisdom that, uh, made some impact on you personally?
Oh, I have so many. Um, the, the, it's not the thought that counts. It's the thoughtful thought is one that I think a lot of people know him for. And, um, I, I spoke to an organization the other day about the five minute favor and joked that actually John, I don't think ever did a favor in five minutes. He was always asking what's the most I can do.
So that's definitely something I will always remember him for, but he was, um, I, I'm very blessed that I was able to also watch him. As a leader who is strong [00:40:00] in his faith and, um, being able to, to see that and have him rely even on those principles in his business, in his family, um, in his friendships, in his relationships is something I'm so grateful for.
And his, his favorite Bible verse is Acts 20, 35, which is, it's, More blessed to give than to receive, which fits giftology well, fits beyond giftology well, and um, we'll always remember John by. Could you talk a little bit about what Rich Relationship Society is? Yes, so that's what I run, um, Rich Relationship Society.
Before even John passed away, what we really noticed was there wasn't a training or a lot of education or membership or coaching around helping small business owners, service based business professionals, solopreneurs, actually build and grow their referral based business with systems. Um, so that's when we [00:41:00] created Rich Relationships Society.
Rich is an acronym, another one, um, for reciprocal, influential, connected, and humble. That was an acronym John made up, actually, and we were all like, eh, we don't, we don't love it. But it stuck, of course. Um, so, you know, teaching people to look at their network and find those rich relationships, but it also is, um, a mechanism of the fact that, Relationships are what make you rich.
Whether, yes, some people view that as financially in their business, um, but also fruitful in, in your soul and your mission for what you're doing on this earth. I love the C, which is connected. Yeah. And you really feel connected to your partners, it becomes something else. what's a good place for people to engage with giftology?
Obviously the book is coming out. When is the, when is the launch of the book? Yes, the book is coming out March [00:42:00] 18th, will be available for purchase then. But I know Corey, you are joining us in Austin to celebrate the book launch, which will be on March 19th. The following day, um all kind of aligning too with john's birthday week So hopefully we'll be able to honor him as well there But if people are interested in purchasing the book they can go to beyondgiftology.
com um, and then they're more than welcome to connect with me on linkedin like I connected with john that one time would love to Um, and, and help grow their business through referrals. Wonderful, Sarah. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this wisdom and knowledge with us. I've learned so much and thank you for being such a great ambassador for, for John and for Giftology.
So really appreciate you coming on. Thank you, Corey. It was such an honor. [00:43:00]
Corey Quinn: ~ So, ~
