DS Stephen Resinstein Edited
===
[00:00:00]
Stephen Reinstein: We left with like four or five new clients, which for me ~was, ~was huge because that got the snowball rolling.
~It, ~When I thought about the industry that I wanted to serve, I knew it was going to be martial arts just because I was so passionate about it. I was so, invested ~just ~because, you know, as a kid that came up and went through the
journey, I understand
the type of impact that martial arts can have on other kids.
Corey Quinn: The way you delight customers is you ~not, ~not only solve their wants or their needs, but you solve their unexpected or other unrecognized needs. The
things that they don't
realize that they need today.
Stephen Reinstein: Dude, there's money on the table and you're missing out.
Corey Quinn: The sales experience absolutely matters, not just ~the, uh, ~the product and the pitch, but ~they also, ~the whole overall experience.
Stephen Reinstein: That's part of the journey that makes it so worthwhile and part of the challenge.
Corey Quinn: Customers will only love a company as much as its employees do.
~I'm ~ today I'm I'm [00:01:00] thrilled to be speaking with Steven Reinstein. He's the CEO and founder of Market Muscles, a vertical specialist agency that serves over 700 martial arts and dance studios worldwide. Steven is not only an agency owner, He's a lifelong martial artist
Having
started his training at
~the age, ~the young
ripe age of two years old.
I cannot wait to dive into his
story. Steven,
welcome to the show.
Stephen Reinstein: I appreciate
you having me here.~ you having me here.~
Corey Quinn: So could you share with us a little bit more about market muscles? What do you do? Who do you serve? What kind ~of, like, what type ~of products ~do you, ~do you guys specialize in and so on?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, absolutely. ~Uh, ~so I founded the company in 2016. Uh, it was a culmination of my two biggest
passions in life
being martial arts, like you had mentioned, started training. And then, um, you know, web design and web development. And
I
had been doing,
~uh,~
web design and web development professionally for quite a few years,
~uh, ~working for other
agencies, and I always knew that I wanted to work for myself.
[00:02:00] When I thought about the industry that I wanted to serve, I knew it was going to be martial arts just because I was so passionate about it. I was so, ~uh, ~invested just because, you know, as a kid that came up and went through the
journey, I understand
the type of impact that martial arts can have on other kids.
And I wanted to be part of that. ~So,~
Corey Quinn: That's awesome.
Stephen Reinstein: yeah, it just really took, ~uh,~
you know, my skills.
~I, ~I started, designing websites at a super young age as well and thought, Hey, I could really help a lot of, a lot of schools out there. So,
~uh, you know, happy~
~to jump into the story of it, but ~fast forward, I think it's almost nine years now, ~uh, ~you know, serving
over 700
locations and now starting
the journey of dancing or
getting into the dance, ~uh, ~industry, which has
been, ~uh,~
a lot of fun and also very challenging
Corey Quinn: ~Yeah,~
~of course.~
Are you
a dancer
~as~
Stephen Reinstein: I'm not, no, ~I'm, ~I'm,
I've just been doing martial arts. ~I, ~I
definitely have two left feet when it comes to
dancing, but, uh, You know, it's such a different, uh, you know, very similar in that they're serving a very, ~uh, ~specific market that's similar ~to, ~to martial arts. But when I go to the trade shows,
~uh, ~it's a very different
vibe for sure.
Corey Quinn: sure. Absolutely. ~I, I, ~I can understand [00:03:00] that. So, ~uh, ~how did you get involved in web design development? Like ~where, ~where did that, where did that come
in?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, so I, like I mentioned, started at a young age, I think I was 12 or so once
I really
jumped into it. My dad was super into computers,
So I've always
grown up, ~uh, ~you know, I'm 35 years old now, but have grown up ~on, ~on computers. he did a lot of networking. He worked with Microsoft. He wrote a few books for Microsoft as well.
So I
kind
of just grew up with ~that, ~that sort of, ~uh, ~inspiration there. ~Um, ~and then I remember the first time I made money online, ~uh, ~there was, ~a, ~a guy that I was friends with, ~um, ~that his parents owned ~a, um, uh, an, ~an attorney agency, a lawyer practice, and they need a new website. So I helped build it. I think I made a hundred bucks, which for me was like, awesome.
because I was. 12, 13 years old and, ~um, ~you know, that really sparked something in me like, Oh, cool. I can kind of take this passion that I
have for
graphic design, web design and turn it into something. So, ~you know, ~really started to pursue it. But Of course I was doing it, you know,
Every now and then when I could find time between school
and everything.
But, when I was in my senior year of high school, I actually made the, at the time [00:04:00] pretty dumb decision to drop
out and
really pursue my passion. ~Uh, ~luckily everything has worked out, but for a little
Corey Quinn: Wait. So ~you, so you,~
you dropped out of high school to
which
passion, martial arts
Stephen Reinstein: Oh, no, no, no. Web design and
Corey Quinn: Okay.
~yeah, Yeah, ~
~yeah.~
Stephen Reinstein: yeah. So, ~I, ~I knew at a young age,
like, this is what I wanted to
do.
And I
just knew, like, ~you know, ~high school was not really fulfilling, like, my desires, what I wanted to really focus on. So, you know, I made that decision to drop out. My parents were not on board, but You know, it's, it's something that I knew was right for me at the time.
~Um, ~and I just really wanted to jump into the workforce.
~Like I, ~I got my
GED pretty much immediately after dropping out and just started working essentially.
Corey Quinn: was that about when you were about 17,
Stephen Reinstein: ~17. ~Yep.
Corey Quinn: ~So at ~So at that point ~you, ~you were designing websites. So you said you started at 12 to seven, so five years and you're like, this is it. This is my opportunity. ~Uh, ~just super curious. ~Uh, what is, ~what platform ~were you, ~were you developing websites on back then?
Like back in the early
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, so I was using Photoshop
~to,~
to design the websites, [00:05:00] but before like with coding and everything, you'd have to take the slice tool from Photoshop and like slice ~your, ~your design into like little graphics and then port it over to using CSS and HTML to, ~to like ~make things look, ~you know, ~better, but
~yeah,~
~it was, ~it was a pretty manual process and I was really heavily into the design side.
I would hire, Contractors
to help with the development, but contractors can be super unreliable. So I was dealing with a specific project where I had a really tight deadline and the contractor that I was using for development was not available, ~uh, ~not answering. So I was like, okay, I got to figure out how to do this myself.
Cause I don't want to have to deal with this anymore. So that's kind of how I got into the programming side. It was specifically based on the need of, ~of, you know,~
not having to
rely on other people
Corey Quinn: my website design skills are horrible, but back in the day for myself, similar in some respects that, ~uh, ~I didn't actually learn how to code CSS and HTML. I mean, I know basic stuff, but I use something like Dreamweaver, like
a [00:06:00] Wuzzywig type of thing, right? That's how I would do the
websites.
And then, ~and then, uh, I, ~I hired someone to
build
~a, uh,~
a
website for a, ~for a Uh, ~consulting company I started back out of college and he built it a hundred percent in flash, which at the time was like really cool.
But ~yeah,~
looking
back now, it was, ~it was, uh, not, ~not the right, ~uh, ~strategy.
Stephen Reinstein: That's funny.
Corey Quinn: ~Yeah. Right. Um,~
and so, so you launched in 2016 and that was that about when you had ~left, um, ~left high school, or was there a period between you left high school and you really decided to focus in
~on~
~the, ~on the vertical market?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah.
No,~ no, ~I worked at a couple different agencies between when I left high school and when I ~Uh,~
started
MarketMuscles. I worked for an agency where we were working on, ~uh, ~SaaS products, like based out of Silicon Valley, kind of, ~those, ~those companies that were getting big cash investments. ~Uh, ~there's one that's like absolutely huge called Sumo Logic now that we worked on.
~Uh, ~we did the development, ~uh, ~some development projects for Fiverr and some other projects as well. ~Um, and ~that was a lot of fun. And then I went from there to working for another agency where we were [00:07:00] primarily focused on, uh, Political based projects. ~ uh, So, um, ~I got to, for instance, code the website for, ~uh, ~what we thought was going to be president elect Hillary Clinton, but then obviously that didn't go well.
So that's a website that never got to see the, ~uh, ~the light of day, but it's still a cool project to be part of. But, ~uh, ~ultimately, I wasn't like super passionate about politics and, you know, all my coworkers were like, you know, die hard, you know, really, really into it. And I was like,
okay, like I, I love
To see their passion for it, and I want that for myself, but politics is not it.
So, I was like, okay, I got to really go in and start building something for myself. you know, that was 2016 when I launched MarketMuscles. And I still maintained both jobs for a little bit, where I was working for the agency, and then I had MarketMuscles. ~Um, ~but it took a little while for things to like, you know, start picking up.
Those first couple
months
were, were
were
scary.
Heh heh.
Corey Quinn: Sure. ~Of Of course. ~So real quick, before we jump into that moment, cause I think it's going to be helpful for the audience, but back at the agency you were doing, ~um, ~you were, I'm imagining the [00:08:00] agency was a web development, web design
agency
specifically. Did you focus on the front end?
the back end, a little bit of both.
Like what, what aspect of the website bill?
like for instance, Hillary Clinton's
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, it was mostly front end development. We use WordPress as like the core CMS that we were. So I was, I was just building themes
out, ~um,~
doing a lot of ~like different ~front end JavaScript ~type~
~type things~
as well. We were
really starting to
~kind of ~push the limits of animations and things like
that,~ um, ~with
the projects
that we were building.
~Uh, but ~this
was 2015, so, you know, still kind of. 10 years ago, which is wild that 2015 is 10
Corey Quinn: a lifetime ago,
right?
Stephen Reinstein: so, ~um, you know, ~still trying to figure out, like, from a technology standpoint, how we can ~kind of ~push the envelope. But, yeah, mostly front end development.
Corey Quinn: So you have these skills, a passion for martial arts. ~Did you, did you launch, it sounds like it was a, a side hustle or a side project~
~at start.~ Did you exclusively focus on martial arts
schools or ~was that, ~did that specialization come over time? Like how did that
unfold?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, so, during my time of working for other agencies, I was doing a lot of contract work on the side. I've always had, ~like, a, you know, a, I don't know, ~a [00:09:00] hustler mentality in the
sense that, ~like, ~I
wanted to, ~um, You know, ~really build up
my
net worth ~And, ~and try and save up as much money and things like that.
And I had a little agency on the side for a bit and we were basically taking on any project that ~would, ~would pay us, right? So we have like an apartment building that we're doing some ~like ~SEO for. and, ~Uh, ~an online shop that
sold pajamas
and like all these ~like ~crazy things, basically anyone that would,
~you know, ~cut
us a check.
And, ~uh, ~ultimately we kept losing business to specialty agencies, right? So the apartment complex came to us and they're like, Hey, ~we, ~we love the work that you guys are doing, but this, you know, company over here, all they do is market for ~apartment ~apartments. And, you know, it was hard ~to, ~to. try and win them back because, you know, this, these were
the, the specialist, right? So
of course they're going to do a better job than us. So ~that, ~that small agency little side project kind of fell to the side. And when I decided that I was going to start something new, I knew it had to be a niche focused, ~uh,~
agency.
Corey Quinn: how did you come to, ~uh, ~martial arts as the primary [00:10:00] focus? Obviously you had that passion, but was there like, were there other things that came in, like were part of that decision?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. So my karate instructor at the time had a website and I remember sitting down in his office and he was just like struggling with. The design and the way that it was functioning and it wasn't getting him results It wasn't getting him leads and I remember taking a look at it and I
was like,
okay, this website's terrible.
I remember he was paying. I
think it was only like 99
bucks a month or something like that. But for me, I'm like, Hey, if I could sell 20 of those, like I'm paying my mortgage, right? ~So it was~
~like,~
I
feel ~like~ I can do this.
So I asked him, I was like, Hey, can I build you a website? And let's just see what the results are like.
~Like, ~let's just see, you know, because I do this professionally, I think I can build you something better. So that was really, ~like, ~how I kind of tested the waters initially. I was like, let me just build you a website, let's see how the results are. And it was fantastic. I mean, he was getting a couple leads per day, where before he wasn't really getting anything.
So, ~um, ~you know, that's what kind of gave me the confidence, like, okay, I think I could do this for ~other, ~other martial arts schools.
Hey, it's Corey. After scaling an agency from [00:11:00] 20 million to 150 million. I've discovered something profound. The most successful agencies aren't trying to serve everyone. They dominate one specific vertical market. I've created the Deep Specialization Accelerator, a 90 day group program that transforms generalist agencies into sought after vertical market specialists using the proven system from my bestselling book anyone not everyone we will help you to number one choose the perfect vertical market for you if you don't already have one Number two, build trust and authority in the vertical.
Number three, create a predictable revenue growth plan so you can dominate the market with certainty. Join other ambitious agency founders ready to escape the generalist trap. We start in early March and only 12 spots are available to ensure you have an amazing experience. Visit Corey Quinn dot [00:12:00] com slash DSA, that's Corey Quinn dot com slash DSA to learn more about the next cohort that's starting soon.
Now back to the show.
Corey Quinn: Like, how did you start to build this and build momentum within the martial arts industry?
Stephen Reinstein: ~Yeah, so. ~Back in 2016, we were leveraging Facebook groups a lot, right? So going into industry Facebook groups, sharing content or tips, but it was a really slippery slope because, you know, anytime you go into someone else's Facebook group and you start sharing information, of course, it comes across pretty salesy or even if I wasn't selling, right?
Like there's a clear kind of like motive behind it. ~So. ~Really the thing that
pushed us over the edge,
~um, ~there was a huge, ~uh, ~convention or trade show in the industry called the Martial Arts Super Show that was happening in Vegas,
happens in July. So I
started the company May 2016. This event was happening July of 2016.
And I reached out to them just to see if they had any boots left because
typically they were [00:13:00] selling out like a year in advance. And they just so happened to have a company that had to back out.
So they had one
booth left. And
I was
like, alright, I'll take it. And I can't remember exactly how much it was.
It was around three grand or so, but I know it was way more
than what I had to
give in. So I remember calling them, asking if I could put a 500 deposit on it. So took one credit card, had them run it. Give me a call back a week later. Okay. Put the rest on this credit card. Okay. Now I gotta book flights.
Okay. Put on this credit card. And at this point, I hadn't really done
a lot of
traveling. So like I remember arriving in Vegas, I get to check into the room and
they're like, Okay, we're gonna put
down, you know, 300 for incidentals. And I was like,
oh shit, now
there goes my food budget for the, for the week.
Right. So, ~uh, ~it was really a leap of faith. And, um,~ um, ~Also the booth that they, they put us in was directly next to the largest website company in the industry, like literally right next to them. And that's all they had left. And
I was like, man,
this is. [00:14:00] This is rough.
Corey Quinn: ~Yeah. Right. Wow. ~And did you have a booth? Was it a booth space or was it like a,
just a
tabletop? Like what was the actual
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. I mean, we
had a 10 by 10 space,
but like we
had to pop up banners and
~a, you know, ~a six foot table, like
Corey Quinn: Right. ~Yeah. Table.~
Stephen Reinstein: it's all we could do, ~but~
Corey Quinn: Next to the behemoth
Stephen Reinstein: ~right. ~No, they had a 10 by 20, you
know, huge backdrop there. Their CEO at the time was riding around on a
Segway, like giving things out. ~Like it was, it~
~was brutal,~
~ but, um,~
Corey Quinn: How did the
show go?
Stephen Reinstein: ~it, ~We left with like four or five new clients, which for me ~was, ~was huge because that got the snowball rolling.
Like that really got things going. ~And, and, uh, you know, ~at the time we did something really dumb. Actually, we were thinking about, like, what could we give away to people? So it's day one. ~And ~I was like, what if we gave away a free website for a year? Like, that seems like it would be super valuable. And then I realized, Hey, we're trying to sell websites.
~Why are You know,~
why would
someone buy a website from us if they have the opportunity to potentially win one for a year? So I was like, okay, we got to scratch that idea. So day two, we come back, we take down the sign that says, win a website for a year. Because, yeah, but, ~um, ~yeah, no, we left
with four
or five clients.
And at that time we were pricing ourselves, I
think at
179 per month. So we were [00:15:00] like super, super cheap. ~Um, ~but really just trying
to build
up, you know, any sort of, reputation really.
Corey Quinn: ~At ~At that time, ~was the website, ~was the promise of the website ~more, ~more new, ~uh, ~students? Or was it more just
a web
presence? Like, what was the pitch there back
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, it was~ it was, ~solely focused on getting them more leads, you know, because that's ultimately what we did ~for, ~for my karate instructor. And then, you know, ~that's, ~that's really what these schools care about. Right.
They
can have a brochure website, but it's not gonna do
anything for growing their business.
~They wanted it's really our focus.~
Corey Quinn: So 179 per month. And the value prop was we're going to build you
a
great website, build your visibility, get you more leads,
Stephen Reinstein: Yep, exactly.
Corey Quinn: Great. Four or five clients. ~And then, then what~
~happened?~
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. So word started to spread. we.
~You know,~
kept on picking up uh, clients and it's funny. I mapped out our like revenue every single month. Um, and I actually, I'm going to bring this up cause I think it's super interesting to, to
kind of read
So, June of 2016, our gross revenue for that month was [00:16:00] 379.
July of 2016, 733 August was 1, 317. I'm going to fast forward you to December. We're at 5, 830
a month.
~So.~
Corey Quinn: Monthly recurring.
Stephen Reinstein: recurring. Yes. So things just started to naturally grow. We
started to get
a great reputation about the, you know, how our services were performing. ~Um, ~and then looking at
~uh,~
2016, we ended the year at 32, 000.
~So again, this is really just more organic growth. But ~something happened
in 2017.
Leading into 2018, that really ~kind of ~exploded our growth. ~So ~we had a specific competitor in the industry and this is more luck, but
great timing and
of course having a great product. ~But ~a major competitor in the industry started to have certain issues ~that were going on ~internally and they weren't responding to their customer support tickets ~within a, uh, ~in a reasonable amount of time.
Their product was never updating. It was a very static website where clients weren't able to go in and make changes or there was no posting on a blog or anything like that. And then they started to have internal issues with like staff and [00:17:00] things like that. And ultimately they just had clients that were like leaving them, you know, 20, 30, 40 clients a month, leaving them.
And coming to us, which was awesome, you know, cause we were at a great position where things were, you know, starting to really build up and we had a really great product. They weren't doing the same to
~kind of ~keep up
~with, ~with where technology was moving. But of course, with the influx of clients, we were,
~you~
~know, ~dealing with a lot of issues as well.
Corey Quinn: ~It ~It revealed some
cracks ~in the, uh, ~in the system potentially.
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah,
Corey Quinn: that's,
that's normal.~ that's, that's normal. Um, let me, let me understand. ~You mentioned after, uh, after the show in July, uh, the, you got the four to five clients that started to build some more organic kind of, ~um, ~business opportunities. How did that happen specifically?
Was it that you would take the fact that you had these new clients, you'd use that as part of your marketing collateral or was it that word of mouth was starting
to pick
up or what exactly drove the additional leads throughout the rest of the next year?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, absolutely. So a couple different things that worked extremely well for us. First of all, I offered something called [00:18:00] that I would call lightning calls, okay? So I'd go into a Facebook group and I'd say, Hey, I've got the next, ~uh, ~hour available. I'll take four people on for 15 minutes each. I'll answer whatever questions you have about online marketing.
First four people to message
me, like let's hop on a
call. And that worked extremely well. And it didn't matter whether or not they were clients or not clients. It was just simply to,
you know, build relationships, give back, provide
value. But also for myself, I. Getting into the business was not very comfortable with sales or really talking to people in that type of way.
So being able to kind of have this low pressure, ~um,~
~You know avenue to kind of~
chat with people, share my expertise, but not in a way where I'm like trying to close the deal was really helpful for kind of like building myself up to be able to to do that. So that was super helpful. ~Um, ~in terms of, yeah, getting, you know, our clients to share testimonial videos that was, ~uh, ~super imperative and then also joint ventures.
~So Once things started to really pick up for us, there were certain players within the industry that kind of took notice of what we were doing and there was, uh, one specifically, ~there is a curriculum company, so they were all about building Children's [00:19:00] curriculum that martial arts schools
could take
just to enhance the way that they could teach other martial arts schools.
And, ~um, ~they jumped in pretty early with us. They kind of saw the big picture and what we were trying to do. ~Um, ~and that was really helpful. I think joint ventures has been probably one of ~our, our, ~our best ways of growing.
Corey Quinn: for those who are not familiar, like what is a joint venture? How does it look? How does it work? What's
it, what, what does a good partner look like? That type of
Stephen Reinstein: Absolutely. Yeah. So,
~uh,~
joint ventures are basically you looking at other industry providers that don't offer exactly what you're offering, but would be a good, ~um, ~you know, Kind of a good thing to have side by side with what you're doing, right? So for us, it could be, you know, a CRM company for instance, because we're focusing on the websites, CRMs are focusing on ~the, uh,~
~you~
~know, ~the member management aspect of it.
~Um, ~it
could
be like an insurance company, for instance, right? ~There's, ~there's different types ~of~
of
businesses out there that would be a good joint venture partner for us, but it's really identifying, you know, these, these businesses out there that have our ideal client [00:20:00] and we also have their clients.
So. You know, by partnering up and finding this, this joint venture, you can
kind of share
clients back and forth and ends up being a great, great deal for
everyone.
Corey Quinn: ~What ~What are some ways that, ~uh, ~you would partner with ~these, uh, ~these partners, like these joint
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. So big ways that we would kind of, ~uh, ~collaborate one doing webinars. That was always huge. I mean,
I
think the big thing that. You always wanna be
~do, uh, ~doing
is providing value to, to your prospects. So
doing webinars, ~um,~
we would host in person events, they would host in person events. So kind of speaking on each other's stages was always super helpful.
~Um, ~but really just giving our kind of
like sign of approval
to our customers that trust us and to their customers that trust them, ~um, ~you know, ultimately lead. You
~to, ~to
people
signing up. And
then figuring out ways where you can enhance the
customer's experience by
having both of your products, right?
So we would create social media graphics
for our
clients to be able to take and run ~Uh ~for Facebook ads. This curriculum company, they had, ~uh, ~you know, special branding and things like that. So we would [00:21:00] customize our social media graphics to have their branding on it. ~So that way,~
~you know, there's~
~another asset~
~for their~
~their mutual clients with us.~
Corey Quinn: When you say events, ~was that, ~were they local events or ~were they sort of the, ~the national events like the martial arts super show or ~what, ~what type of events do you guys
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, ~there were, ~there were industry events. ~Um, ~and typically when we would do it, it would just be for our clients when they would do it mostly be for their clients. ~Uh, ~you know, the big kind of conventions like the martial arts super show and some of the other ones. Those
are
like, you know, six figure productions that are
put
Corey Quinn: Big. Yeah. Big. But you would host your own event, ~uh, ~separate from those,
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it would be like, you know, 80 people or so. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, but I
~actually~
much prefer those because there's such like a deeper connection that's built with the people in the room versus those, those large trade shows. ~Um, ~so it was always ended up to be a lot more fruitful than the, the bigger ones for sure.
Corey Quinn: ~What, ~what are some best practices ~for, ~for hosting an event like
that?
Stephen Reinstein: Oh man, this is a limited question. ~Um, yeah. ~So I think the,
Corey Quinn: ~lot to him, ~By
the way, I've done it, I've done it myself. So I know there's a lot to it.
~Yeah,~
Stephen Reinstein: yeah. First thing I'll say is Organization of [00:22:00] those events is not my particular strong point. So finding someone on my team, and of course, it's it's a little bit easier once you have team members that are great on that. But I had people on my team that
were like super
excited about the idea of planning.
~Right. ~And of course, anytime you're hosting this sort of event, ~it~
it starts
six months before, eight months before it actually happens because of the amount of planning that goes into two days or one day. It's it's pretty wild. ~Um, ~But really for us, you know, the
big thing
is like if our customers were paying the money to fly across the country or to come out, ~we were really, my, my, ~my main focus was really on the content, ensuring that they're getting
the most
out of it, ensuring that they're
able to, ~you know,~
network with the people around them to, ~you know, ~get any sort of questions answered.
~Um, ~so that's really what my focus was on. I think one of
the
things that ~like ~our customers really appreciated was being fed really well. I know it sounds silly, but, ~you~
~know, ~making
sure that they're, ~you~
~know,~
getting fed, they're getting drinks, that coffee's available, that, you know, there's, ~uh, ~all sorts of different
Corey Quinn: Details matter ~in these~
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, it really does. I mean, we had one client that's lactose intolerant, right? So we [00:23:00] need to make sure that they have ~You know ~their creamer that they can have ~and ~and all these ~like ~minute details that go into it but it's those things that really leave a lasting impression with your clients and make them stay for so long if you can put that thought into it
Corey Quinn: And so ~what would, what, ~how do you ~track the measure or ~track or measure the success of one of these events? ~Like, ~how do you know it was a good
event?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, that's a great question. ~Um, ~so I think there's some technical things that you can do in terms of
~like, you know, ~sending
out post event questionnaires.
~You know,~
what did you think about this session? ~Uh, you know, ~give this a rating. What did you
think about
this speaker? ~Um, ~but for us, ~you know, ~we really went in it with the intention of.
Making sure that we're growing our relationship with our clients, right? So we weren't looking for an immediate ROI. And of course,
there
are ways to make money ~from~
from hosting
these sorts of events. But that really wasn't our focus. We were really focused on, okay, best experience possible. That way, our customers are ~you know, ~just deepening their relationship with us and are going to want to stay around for a longer period of time.
Because for us, typically, our customers will stay for about four and a half, five years, which is a pretty long [00:24:00] time. ~Um, ~We are low ticket, so as of right now we charge anywhere between 329 and 599, just depending on what package they choose. But our lifetime value of our customers end up being like 18, 000 or so.
So, you know, it's
~definitely~
in our best interest to invest and want to keep them for a long period of time.
Corey Quinn: Well, you
talk about one of their, ~uh, ~the ways that you market the business and you've grown
is
by having a great product.
Stephen Reinstein: Yes.
Corey Quinn: Can you talk about the product and what makes it great?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, absolutely. ~Um, ~so this is the part that I am personally super passionate about. ~So ~I built the product, ~um, ~the website itself. I now have developers on my team that
~kind of~
help with, ~uh, ~more of the CRM functionality that we're building. ~And ~I'd love to ~kind of~
talk
a little bit about the inspiration that we're taking from Scorpion now.
~And ~you actually sent out an email, I think it was yesterday or today, where you talked about owning the product, owning the data. ~yeah,~
Corey Quinn: One system.
Stephen Reinstein: Yes.
Yeah, exactly. And ~that, that, ~that is, ~yeah, it's, ~it's so good. ~Um, but, ~but really for us, it's like anticipating the needs of our customers before they even anticipate it [00:25:00] and providing a solution.
So that way, you know, ~They're they're ~they're set up for success, right? Like around covid, for instance, that
was
a huge time for gyms, martial arts schools because they were shut down,
right? So they couldn't
get their students in the doors. So ~we, you know, ~we thought, okay, martial arts schools
are
going to be going out of business left and right.
So what can we do to help them get through the covid time? So first thing that we started
doing was
building an online platform where they can start running classes
online and
teaching their students virtually. Right? So it's really kind of looking ~new. ~to the future, figuring out, okay, what are those future needs that they're going to need?
And then providing that as a
Corey Quinn: Hmm. I love that. I think, ~um, uh, ~there's a
great book.
called
Peak by ~uh, Chip, uh,~
Chip Conley, and I don't know if you know who he is, but he was ~the, uh, ~the chief experience officer over at Airbnb. So really cares ~about, uh, ~about the experience of guests. And previous to that, he had a series of,
~uh,~
high end boutique hotels
~and whatnot.~
And he wrote this amazing book called peak highly recommended. But one of the [00:26:00] things that he talks about is When you are able to delight customers, the way you delight customers is you ~not, ~not only solve their wants or their needs, but you solve their unexpected or other unrecognized needs. The
things that they don't
realize that they need today.
They're not asking for it because it hasn't occurred to them. You're able to solve it before they
even
ask. ~It's really powerful.~
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. ~It's huge. ~
Corey Quinn: That's awesome.
Hey, it's Cory. I wanted to take a quick break from the show to say that if you're an agency owner looking for a strategic and reliable white label partner, you should check out E2M they offer website design, WordPress development, e commerce solutions. SEO, PPC, and content writing. And they are trusted by over 300 agencies.
You can check out E2M's transparent and flexible pricing model at e2msolutions. com slash the deep specialization podcast. For limited time, E2M is offering a special 20 percent discount for the deep specialization [00:27:00] podcast listeners on your first month. Go check them out. Now back to the show.
Corey Quinn: So. Within martial arts, you mentioned that, ~uh, ~one of the ways that you've been able to build and deepen relationships with your clients and prospective clients is
through
in person kind of, ~uh, ~events ~and, ~and whatnot. ~Um, how do do you, um, ~do you find that you have
to,
communicate the value of the work that you do to these martial arts studios because what you're selling effectively is a digital product.
Like, do they inherently understand? Because I think that the nature of the business is ~through, you know, ~through in person experiences. ~Like, how do you, how do you, ~how do you help
people to understand
the value of things like Facebook and websites?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. That's actually a really great question Cause ~it's, ~it's something that we are constantly thinking about and quite honestly have struggled with in the past, right? Because we're dealing with. Fairly non technical people, right? Their focus is on the Mets. ~It's ~it's teaching. It's, ~uh, you know, ~instructing.
And, you [00:28:00] know, we may spend, ~you know, ~100 hours on building some incredible feature and we're so proud of it, but to them, ~like, ~what does that translate into,
~Right?~
So we're constantly thinking, okay, ~you know, ~from their perspective, ~like, ~how do we explain how this is going to save them time? How is this going to make them more money?
How is this going to help them attract more students? And that's typically the language that we have to put things into, regardless of the technical pieces
in the back
~end. ~So, for instance, we need to continue to show our value to our customers. So, when they log into their dashboard, we'll show them how many leads that they've generated,
~you~
~know, ~today, this week, this month, overall.
And then we'll put a little calculator in there as well, so it shows the average value of a martial arts student, right? They pay on average around 120 bucks a month. So then we'll show them you have potentially earned an additional X amount based on the amount of leads that you generated, based on the conversion rates that should
be hitting
lead to member, and then, ~you know, ~the average price of ~a~
~uh, ~a membership.
And this is how much you've added to [00:29:00] your business to your bottom line because of market muscles, right? So we really try to kind of show them ~At the at the at the core of it. ~Here's how much money you're adding to your business because of us
Corey Quinn: You're doing, you're doing the math for them and putting it right there. So it's unignorable.
~Now, ~now what happens ~if you're, ~if you're able to send amazing leads to the studio, but they are just not closing them and they're complaining, ~how do you, ~how do you manage ~that, ~that situation?
Stephen Reinstein: so Probably one of the most frustrating things as an agency owner, right? Especially if you log into any of their, their platforms and you see like people texting them like, hey, I'm interested, send me more info. And then they're not responding
back. And it's like,
dude, there's money on the table and you're missing out.
It sucks. So one of the big things that we started doing, ~um, ~so you interviewed a guest, Chris Rodriguez, who is a very
close friend of mine. She runs a Facebook
and Google agency for martial arts schools. So we, we tend to share a lot of customers and pass them back and forth. And there's a program that they run, they call it their concierge [00:30:00] program, where they'll essentially call leads for The martial arts schools and that program has been great.
Anytime that we see our clients not doing what they're supposed to be doing, we'll refer them to that program. ~Um, ~but ~you know, any, ~anything that you can alleviate from ~the, ~the business owner, I think
they're happy to pay for,
~um, ~especially if it's going to bring them the results. So that's been kind of the way that we've dealt with it.
But I think offering a concierge program in general could be, ~you know, ~super beneficial because. ~You know, ~business owners. ~I mean, ~we know firsthand we've got so much going on, even though we know responding to lead should be ~like ~top priority. But for some, it's not for whatever reason.
Corey Quinn: Yeah.
~Yep. ~So you started in 2016. I think it's fair to say that there were not a lot of agencies who were exclusively or semi exclusively focusing on this market. It feels like today there's a lot more people who are
specializing going in this direction. How do you
differentiate or position your agency so that you, let's say you have a studio or a [00:31:00] school owner who's looking at you and
some other alternatives.
~How~
~do you, ~how do you differentiate in the market?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, that's a great question. There is new agencies popping up, it seems like every day. Like, I get Facebook ads all the time for, you know, we can get you 50 new students a month, we can get you 60 new, like, ~uh, insane, you know, promises that are being made. Um, ~but I think it's the same things that let us grow that allow us to maintain, to be competitive,
and it has a lot to do with
our core values as a company.
It has a lot to do with our, ~um, ~you know, our just
head
down, always trying to Make the next best thing like we're always trying to improve on what we're doing and communicating that with our clients They really appreciate that that we're always looking out for them
~Um,~
Our customer support team. Like I mentioned before, when we really started growing, that's ~like ~the first thing that broke down.
So we focused a lot on building an incredible customer support team that really goes
above and
beyond to delight our customers. ~Um, ~and that is something that is kind of known about our company, right? So if someone asks,
~you know,~
how do you feel about
market muscles?
Yeah, they get great results, but then they'll really talk [00:32:00] about our customer support and how we're available to help
them ~uh, ~take care of whatever they need.
And that helps
a lot with our continued growth. ~Um,~
you know, those two things really stick out to me,
just really having an incredible product and then an incredible ~team ~customer support team, ~to, ~to assist.
Corey Quinn: So, now that you've been down this road and ~you've, ~you've had to really focus your energy on building an amazing world class customer support team, like what has to be true
~to,~
to have a world class ~support team, ~customer support team?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. So one thing that. has been detrimental to our success is finding people that align with your values ~as ~as a founder and having that alignment. So for me, ~like, I, ~I always try to approach situations from
a very
empathetic standpoint
and really understand our customers
And yes, we offer technology and I do need a technical person who's able to hop in there ~and ~And do those sorts of things, but I've employed people that didn't have that empathetic approach, but they were super technical.
And then I've employed [00:33:00] people that were not super technical, but had a very empathetic approach. And all day, every day, I would hire, ~you know, the, ~the person that's empathetic. Because, ~you know, they're, ~they're the ones that make the customers feel all warm and fuzzy. And, ~you know, ~it aligns with our values ~and, ~and we can teach ~those skills, ~the technical skills.
But it's very hard to teach people ~those, ~those soft skills ~and, ~and change who they are at a core. So that's been huge for us when we're hiring and building our team, we really focus on who they are as a person, more so than ~their, ~their skill set.
Corey Quinn: How do you know you're hiring
someone?
~um, ~if you're looking for someone who has a sort of high level empathy, ~how do you, ~how do you know you're hiring someone who has ~that, ~that attribute?
Stephen Reinstein: I really wish I had a great like technical answer for this, but for us, what's worked is hiring friends or, you know, family of people that already work with us because we kind of have a deep in depth look at who they are as a person beforehand. And I know that's, you know, I guess, kind of cheating, right?
But for us, it's, it's worked really well. So,
~uh, ~for instance, our,
~um, you know, ~head ~of, ~of customer success, ~he,~
~you know,~
goes to a church and he's got a [00:34:00] lot of friends from that church that ended up becoming employees with us. And we just know from, ~you know, ~his experiences that they are great people. And, ~you know,~
it's just worked out really well for us.
So, you know, any, any sort of
relationships that you're able to kind of work off of, you know, works really well. ~Um, ~But, you know, any anytime we do interviews, like I mentioned, it's really not focused on the technical aspect. It's like, you know, I'll ask silly questions. I'll say, Oh, what's your spirit animal, right?
Like, ~just yeah. ~just want to see how they answer questions, whether they laugh, they have fun, like, because, you know, we spend more time with our employees than we do with our spouses or our family, right? So it's really important that we're all going to get along and work well together. So, Yeah.
Corey Quinn: Are you guys all in person? Are you virtual or?
Stephen Reinstein: ~Uh, ~we're split. So we've got, I think, 12 people in our, in our headquarters, we're located here in Norfolk, Virginia. and we've got
another 10 or so people that are remote.
Corey Quinn: Have you ever or do you currently
employ salespeople?
Stephen Reinstein: We've got one.
Corey Quinn: [00:35:00] Okay.
Stephen Reinstein: ~Um, ~so I used to do it, ~uh, ~when I first started off with the agency. Did not enjoy doing it, ~um, ~eventually hired someone, they moved on. And now ~the, uh, ~the gal that we have in place here has been
with us
for about a year and a half. Her Name's Lauren.
She's
incredible. She is, ~uh, ~just really great at connecting with customers.
Whenever we do ~our, ~our sales calls, we always do website audits. It's kind of what ~we, ~we lead with It allows us to kind of provide some value up front and just have the conversation to see if there's some alignment. And, ~uh, ~she just does a really great job at really connecting with, ~with our, ~our prospects and, ~know, ~demonstrating the value of what we do
in a
super non salesy way, which for me is like what makes me feel good.
Like I hate, and I know
how.
You know, well it could work if you have a really great sales team ~that, ~that is, ~uh, you know, it could be ~pushy and things like that. But for
me, like I always
kind of base the way I build my company ~based ~off of my own experiences. And like, you know, buying a car sucks and, ~you know, ~all these other things you go through where
you're ~kind of ~having
these high pressure sales.
So, you know, I built my company the way I want to be sold
to ~you.~
Corey Quinn: Yeah. A lot of, so part of the work that I, [00:36:00] I do today is, ~um, ~Part of it is helping agencies to do positioning and messaging. And one of the parts of that is doing a lot of buyer journey interviews, like interviewing their clients, understand like, why did
you choose this
agency?
What about it? And the one theme that comes up
again and
again and again is the quality of the sales experience is in many cases a determining factor for why a prospective client becomes a client is. You know, the experience that it is not pushy. It's very personable that they, ~that, ~that, that, that perspective client, that buyer feels like they're important.
~Like they're, they're, they're,~
~ they~
feel like they are getting a custom experience in the sales process ~and ~compared to any other option that they, that they have that, you know, all the other experiences in that sales process that is different.
It's very transactional. ~Um,~
~and canned ~and productized in many cases.
~And so therefore that's why they ~So the sales experience absolutely matters, not just ~the, uh, ~the product and the pitch, [00:37:00] but ~they also, ~the whole overall experience
Stephen Reinstein: ~Yeah. ~Yeah. And we've, I've tried different things, especially like, you know, when I was doing sales myself, I hit a point
where I'm like, okay, I hate
doing this. Why don't
I just record a demo video,
right, and throw it on a landing page and allow, you know, prospects to go check it out themselves. And, you know, that was obviously a terrible idea.
~And, ~so we've tried different ways of selling. And, you know, I just know that for that specific, ~uh, ~portion of the
business, I
just have to get in my own way, hire someone that's really good at it and, ~uh, you know, ~let them take the reins. And they've been great.
Corey Quinn: At what point ~in the, ~in your journey, ~did you, ~did you realize that I need to hire a salesperson and ~like, , ~what did you do to hire that sales person? Any lessons learned in that first
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah. ~Um, I, well, first of all, ~I think the idea of ~like ~getting out of your own way ~is, ~is hard, ~you know, ~for any business owner to really grasp. Like I mentioned before, ~you know, ~hired a contractor developer. They weren't
showing up on
time. Okay. I'll do it myself. ~Right. Um, ~I remember when I worked for one of those agencies that I mentioned, I was a developer.
We were low on project managers. ~So I was like, ~Oh, I can do this. ~Well, ~I'd be leading, ~you know, ~a team of developers. They weren't getting the work done on time. Okay, well, I'm a developer, too. I'll just do it [00:38:00] myself, ~right? ~So I kind of have that mentality, ~um, you know, ~with my business as well. It's like, ah, I can just do it myself.
But obviously we know that that's not going to allow us to scale. Right. So when I was looking for a salesperson, you know, first of all,
are
they willing to do the job, right? Like that was a big thing for me. Are they hungry? Are they going to go after, ~um, ~you know, opportunities that pop up? That was really big.
~Um, ~you know, I talked a lot about the connection being able to, ~you know, ~make, a good conversation with people to really take a understanding of their needs and their desires. ~Um, ~and it was really helpful that the person that we have in place now, Lauren. She was working for another agency doing sales before, so her knowledge when it comes to SEO, it comes to web design, the way that those things, ~um, you know, ~have an impact on a business and how to properly convey that, that
was really huge.
~But, um,~
I will say that, ~like, ~our salesperson is probably one of the higher paid people in the company just because it's such an important role, ~um, ~and it's not one that I would, ~you know, ~ever cheap out on, I guess.[00:39:00]
Corey Quinn: Is it your
experience that you need to hire? Does Lauren have experience in the, ~uh, ~martial arts industry? Does that ~a pre ~a prerequisite for ~fir ~hiring a good
salesperson?
Stephen Reinstein: no, no, she did not at all. I mean, those are all things that she learned essentially, ~uh, ~you know, how to speak our lingo. And
of course it took time and
we did a lot of practice at first. We did
a lot of role playing,
making sure that
she felt
comfortable with a certain terminology and getting her to understand our competitors
and really having
all of that, those processes documented out for her.
So that
way she felt comfortable going into those, those calls. ~Um, ~but yeah, she had no knowledge about martial arts at all. She had no
idea.
Corey Quinn: Did you have a sales background?
Stephen Reinstein: She did. So ~she, ~she was doing a couple of different types of sales jobs. ~Uh, ~One, she was selling ~a ~TV commercials at one point, which, you know, that obviously really work out because TV is not super popular anymore.
~Um, ~She did some cold calling stuff before. And so ~she's, ~she's had ~um, ~a lot of experience doing different types of sales ~uh, ~roles, but she loves working here [00:40:00] because we provide the leads to her. We
set up the appointments and
Corey Quinn: How nice is
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah,
Corey Quinn: so based
on that,
you don't do a lot of outbound. ~It's all, ~it's all managing inbound
leads.
Stephen Reinstein: ~for the most part. ~Yeah, we, we do, ~um, ~you know, of course run Facebook ads and things like that, but it's just to generate inbound. ~Um, ~yeah, we, we've tried outbound, ~uh, ~before, but I would say that it was mostly on us
~in terms~
~of it, quote unquote, not working and just ~not really taking the time to figure it out.
~Um, ~but I know a lot of really brilliant agency owners that use outbound and, and are able to deploy it amazingly.
Corey Quinn: ~sure.~
When
did you start building a leadership
Stephen Reinstein: Oh, good question. It's about three years ago. It's around covid and it kind of happened, ~uh, ~organically in a way. ~Um, ~so there was two employees, ~um, ~names are Jen
and Garrett
and they are people that I would
trust.
Like, if I were to get hit by a bus tomorrow, I'd leave the company to them
and know
that it would be running successful.
~there. so dedicated. ~I'm so lucky to have them. ~Um, ~And it kind of happened organically where these were the type of people that showed a level of care that I've never seen from employees [00:41:00] and we're just like willing to jump in and hop in wherever they could. ~Um, ~and that to me, you know, stuck
out as as
leadership qualities and, you know, people that I wanted to have on the team for extremely long time.
So, um, just
kept yeah.
pushing them to, you know, take on more responsibility, but also to level up their skills. So that way they're able to be leaders to other people. ~Um, ~and now they all,~ they all, ~they both run, ~you know, ~their own teams essentially. ~Um, ~but yeah,
just,~ just,~
~just really, ~maybe I got lucky, but
those people kind
of stepping up and showing that they were willing to take it on and just having the great fit for our company, ~um, know, ~know, allowed us to grow that way.
Corey Quinn: And it takes a good leader to be able to recognize that talent and be able to empower them and step back. Like you said, being able to know what you're good at and what you're not good at,
Stephen Reinstein: ~Yeah. Yeah. ~Yeah. I mean ~that that ~that stepping back piece ~is ~is so huge. I mean just, you know, being humble enough to really see where ~you're, ~Your shortcomings are and where these, ~you know, ~other people are incredible and [00:42:00] they're able to
~kind of~
step up and ~that ~that has really pushed us.
I mean, I was talking about numbers before starting off and, 2016, ~uh, ~or ending 2016 rather 5800 a month. We're now at, ~um, you know, ~just over 200, 000 a month. So I know that we would not be able to be where we're at today without, ~you know, ~the
people
Corey Quinn: What was that process like going from realizing ~that, um, maybe ~that some of the things you were doing was not in your best interest or the company's best interest?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah,
I think, you know, having an understanding of what got you to where you are today is not necessarily going to get you to where you want to be ~and ~and figuring out, ~like, ~what are the steps you have to take? ~I mean, ~I feel like ~that's ~that's part of the journey that makes it so worthwhile and part of the challenge.
For me specifically, there were like a couple key pieces that happened in the business. So for instance, the customer support breaking down. There was a lot of posts in these community groups that were talking about how poor our customer support was. And it was just because we were bogged down.
I mean, we were signing up 40, 50 new clients a month that we were building websites for, and we just couldn't keep [00:43:00] up with it. I mean, I was up all hours of the night handling support, and I just literally couldn't keep up with the volume. So just taking a step back and saying, Okay, I gotta hire a team.
But hiring people, you
know, it's not going to provide an
instant solution because now you have to onboard the people, it's going to take months for them to get up to speed and be able to provide, so just kind of dealing with the, you know, the, the, the pain in the, in the process,
~um,~
Yeah, that that was a big piece for us.
As soon as we put a dedicated salesperson and ~that was ~that was huge for our growth, ~um, ~me getting over my fear of speaking on stage was huge as well. So being able to go to those industry events and present, I think speaking from stage is such a powerful way to bring in new customers. It's incredible.
~Um, ~so yeah, there's a couple of key kind of pieces while we were going through the growth and, ~uh, ~to be quite frank, cause I think sharing challenges in our businesses is healthy. We've hit this kind of 200 K mark. and We've been stuck here for a little bit. So now we're like, okay, what's going to push us to ~the, ~that next level.
So this is where we're starting
to really invest in,
like you mentioned, Scorpion [00:44:00] did building out the systems, having
it all
in one place, expanding into the dance industry. So that's kind of the next evolution of, of market muscles.
Corey Quinn: Have you built ~a, ~a peer group or a mastermind group, people around you
who are
dealing with similar problems?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah.
~yeah, ~definitely. So I belong to a group. It's where I saw you actually speak for my first time seven figure agency. You did an amazing presentation on the power of gift giving
Corey Quinn: Yeah.
~Yeah. ~Great.
Stephen Reinstein: provided the most amazing cookies. That was awesome. ~Um, ~but yeah, being part of that, that coaching group has been, has been great.
~Um, but yeah, ~anytime that you can invest in being around people with, with, ~uh, ~You know, similar issues or even people that have kind of walked the path before you, ~um, ~it's, a really invaluable resource for
sure.
Corey Quinn: Yeah.
~Uh, and I~
~love, ~I love what Josh has done. ~Um, funny, ~funny thing about Josh, ~uh, uh, ~back at Scorpion, when we got into home services before we were in legal and we got in home services, one of
the first things we
did is like, well, ~who are the, ~who are the big players ~in,~
~in, uh,~
in home services? And of course Josh's plumber SEO was there.
this guy, we're going
to [00:45:00] go steal his clients. You know,
I was like very aggressive
Stephen Reinstein: Take em down.
~heh ~
Corey Quinn: And, ~uh, ~I've since obviously met him and got to know him. He's been on my podcast. I've been on his and
~wow. What a,~
what a great guy. What a great organization he's built. ~Um, ~we have just a couple more minutes.
I'm gonna wrap up with just a couple of last questions. I feel like there's a ton more that we could discuss. So maybe we'll have to do a part two. I
feel like we're just. Scratching the surface, but,
~uh, and ~thank
you for being generous with your time.
It's been so great so far.
so thank you
~for, ~for this.
~Um, ~so you, you're, you're moving into a second vertical. There's
a whole
public strategy there, but
from your mind, having done this since 2016,
nine years in, you've been focusing primarily ~on the, ~on the martial arts, ~uh, ~studio industry, let's call it a vertical. What are the risks involved in taking a vertical approach, a very concentrated vertical approach in your
Stephen Reinstein: Hmm.~ Hmm. Um. ~Maybe it's a good thing
that I'm, I'm, I'm like
stumped here on the risks of taking a vertical approach. I mean, ~it,~
it
has been so fruitful for us that ~it's, ~it's hard to really say, you know, like that it's [00:46:00] risky. I mean, if there's any risk, it's probably just based off of someone's own fear of whether or not they can come into an industry and provide a solution that they
feel like is maybe being provided already.
~Um, yeah. You know that I think ~that was a big fear that I had was that there were other website companies already So ~why ~why would they need what I can do? ~Um right, so ~I felt like maybe i'd be wasting my time going into what I felt like was a maybe saturated market already, but um
Yeah,
I mean
don't know your bank account might get too big.
I don't know
like
Corey Quinn: Good. The Good
Stephen Reinstein: yeah. Yeah No, ~it's ~it's a I know you preach it all the time,
~but,~
Corey Quinn: Yeah. Well, I'm a believer. I've seen the impact of it yourself as a great,
great example
of what's possible.
~Uh, ~Based on
that, ~uh, ~you know, what would be ~your, ~your parting advice to particularly agency owners who are struggling to scale, potentially thinking about taking a
vertical approach?
~What would, ~what would be your advice to
them?
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, so for me, It was so important to pick a niche [00:47:00] that I was personally passionate about, okay? Because once you become, you know, a founder of a company, especially in the early days, Right, you're essentially giving yourself the worst job. You know, the job that's going to make you work. 80, 90 hours a week for very little pay initially.
So if you're not passionate about the industry that you're serving, it's hard to get up every morning and do it over and over and over again.
But if you have
some sort of greater purpose for what you're doing, no brainer. For me, it was, you know, I went through the, the challenges as a kid, you life challenges.
Dropping out of high school, all that stuff. And if I didn't have martial arts in my life, I don't know if I would be where I am today. So, being able to spread, ~you know, ~martial arts to more kids. And, you know, ~we've, ~we've now are responsible for generating over 1. 5 million leads for martial arts schools. So, just the idea that we've connected that many people to martial arts, like that makes me get up every single day. [00:48:00] Couldn't say I would feel the same about another industry. So, I think that if anyone's going to do this, try and pick an industry that you're passionate about.
Corey Quinn: Why the vice? Very, very wise. ~Um, I have just one last~
~question. ~
What's your motivation?
Stephen Reinstein: motivation changes, or has changed for me, ~uh, ~through different stages of the business.
Originally, ~like~
~I said, ~it was covering my mortgage. That was my goal. That was my motivation. Now, my motivation is providing as much opportunity for my employees as possible, and there's nothing better than, ~you know, ~when I get an employee who comes to me and says, Hey, can you sign this employment verification form?
~Because I'm applying for a house or, you know,~
I see them pull up in a
new car or, ~you know, see them ~expand their family and have kids ~like ~that is so cool
to me to be part of that. So
that's really a big thing for me. I want to continue to grow the business just to provide more opportunity. I want to see, my leadership team be able to retire here and, ~you know, ~stay here.
And if we decide to sell in the future, have a great payout [00:49:00] and ~yeah, ~just provide an amazing experience for all of our
Corey Quinn: Wow. That's wonderful. ~What a great, um, ~what a great leader, ~uh, ~that I'm speaking with that. Wants to create that
for their
employees. I remember going to
at the opportunity through Scorpion to go to the Disney Leadership Institute and One of the things I walked away
from that you reminded
me of which is that
~um,~ Customers will only love a company as much as its employees
do
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah,
Corey Quinn: That's
a limited factor right and so
I think you're you're building something pretty cool there so Stephen, thank you so much for coming on the, on the show and sharing your wisdom and your journey with us.
I've learned a lot and I'm sure the audience has
as well.
Where's a good place for people to, ~um, ~reach out to you if they have more questions.
Stephen Reinstein: Yeah, Facebook
is a great place. Just look me up. Stephen Reinstein on Facebook. ~Um, ~or if you want to shoot me an email, it's just stephen at marketmuscles. com.
Corey Quinn: Wonderful. Thanks again, man.
Stephen Reinstein: Awesome. Thank you.
[00:50:00]
