DS PHILLIPS EP_ CQ SHOT_riverside_corey_quinn_raw-video-cfr_the_deep specializa_0156
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[00:00:00] Philipp Humm: You are not the hero. Even if we have a customer story, the tendency is then to make it all about ourselves. Don't do that. When you share a customer story, you go deep into the pain point that that customer had, and then what did they do?
[00:00:11] Philipp Humm: Sure. You helped. But you are just there- the helper.You are Yoda and the customer is Luke Skywalker. You're just the guide that is helping out. Don't make yourself the hero.
[00:00:22] Corey Quinn: People won't remember what you said, but they'll remember the way you made them feel if you're able to help them to transport themselves into that buyer and that story, I think that's really powerful.
[00:00:32] Philipp Humm: Welcome back to the show today. We have a special guest who's going to help us unlock the power of storytelling in sales. I'm excited to introduce Philip Humm. He is the founder of Power of Storytelling and the author of the bestselling book, The story selling method. Phillip's expertise comes from a unique blend of experiences.
[00:01:05] Corey Quinn: He's a former consultant at Bain and company. He worked as a product manager at Uber, and he's even taken tons of acting and improv and standup comedy classes. But what really sets Phillip apart is his passion for helping salespeople connect with their customers on a deep level through authentic, And engaging stories.
[00:01:27] Corey Quinn: And I know that our audience today is full of digital marketing agency owners who are looking for ways to improve their sales game. So I'm really excited for this conversation. Welcome Phillip.
[00:01:38] Philipp Humm: Thanks, Corey.
[00:01:39] Corey Quinn: Awesome. So in the world of sales and storytelling, it's no surprise. This concept of storytelling is a powerful tool in a sales context, but how would you recommend, let's say an agency owner who doesn't have maybe a strong background in sales or even storytelling?
[00:02:00] Corey Quinn: How do you approach, Storytelling within a sales context. Like where do they begin?
[00:02:06] Philipp Humm: So the thing that probably blocks people the most when it comes to storytelling is that they often think that they have to tell these gigantic stories, right? They're like, Oh, okay. I have to now have this perfectly crafted three minute story that will go through the entire arc.
[00:02:22] Philipp Humm: But even if you can just share snippets of stories, You can like this start to inspire your customers on a much more subtle level. So what I would encourage a lot of people instead of thinking of storytelling as this two, three minute stories, think of telling micro stories. And so a micro story, for example, for an agency owner, let's say you're talking to a customer instead of just saying, ah, the customer was very happy.
[00:02:46] Philipp Humm: You then say, well, in that moment, the customer called me and said, wow, thank you so much. With your help, we doubled our revenue in just two weeks. It's crazy, right? Just a snippet there. Can I already make it much more interesting?
[00:03:00] Corey Quinn: That's awesome. And so where in a sales process does storytelling really live? Like where should, an agency owner or a sales manager be thinking about, how do I leverage stories to have the best impact on a sales process. Where does that live?
[00:03:16] Philipp Humm: Yeah. There are three areas. That are probably the most impactful in terms of story usage. One is right at the start to build rapport. So right in those first few minutes of small talk, the second one is once you have a good understanding of the problem. So let's say you've done the discovery and then you want to share actually how you can help them.
[00:03:36] Philipp Humm: They share a success story. And the third one is to show a little bit how you're different. So at one point in the sales conversation, It might come up that, Hey, we like you guys, but actually how are you different from all the others? So that's where the third story type would come in.
[00:03:52] Corey Quinn: What would be some, examples or, how do you approach that first? That's that starting out story. I think you call it a connection story. Like what is a connection story and how does that really work?
[00:04:02] Philipp Humm: Yeah. Uh, on connection stories, it's often funny because if, if we think to the small talk, right. If we think back to the last meeting that we had, then we ask ourselves, what did I talk about? And then it's usually like, Oh, yeah. How are you? Good. It's raining here. Oh, the sun is out. How was your weekend?
[00:04:19] Philipp Humm: Just so freaking boring. And I think I can speak on behalf of everyone. Hey, we've had thousands and thousands of those encounters, and they've just been so unmemorable. And again, hey, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's a missed opportunity. And so in those moments, let's say someone asks you, how are you?
[00:04:40] Philipp Humm: In those moments, that's your opportunity to share a quick story about yourself. A story that shows a little bit more about you as a human. Let me give you an example. Okay. And you want to ask me, how are you?
[00:04:51] Corey Quinn: Hey Phillip, how you doing?
[00:04:54] Philipp Humm: Um, I'm good. Yeah. Yesterday I actually had a very interesting experience. Yesterday I was a little bit stressed at home, worked too hard. And then usually I just go out, see friends. But this time I thought, let me, let me dance. And so I turned on the music and I just, Danced by myself for like half an hour and it felt a little bit weird at the beginning, but then it felt just like, so liberating.
[00:05:18] Philipp Humm: Anyway, what about you, Corey? What has helped you the last time to let go a little bit more of, let's say stress or so.
[00:05:24] Corey Quinn: That's a great question. I probably should, uh, I probably should dance more because I feels like just even hearing you say that, that makes me think about How nice and useful that is to release stress.
[00:05:36] Philipp Humm: Yeah, for sure. Now, perfect. Thank you for responding there. And, um, so what'd you saw there? When someone asks you or me, how are you? You can always choose to respond with something more interesting about yourself. And so don't think that you have to have the perfect super well crafted story for those.
[00:05:55] Philipp Humm: Like, obviously I could tell better stories, but this one is just an initial attempt to build a connection. And it's actually much more about making the other person feel comfortable, making the other person feel comfortable to share a story in return.
[00:06:09] Corey Quinn: What has to be true for the other person to have the opportunity to feel comfortable? Like you shared something about. You know, something you did, uh, like, like dancing is like, you know, what has to be true about a connection story to kind of open that door for them to be maybe more vulnerable.
[00:06:24] Philipp Humm: So for that, for the other person to be more vulnerable, it has to be something that they can relate to. And for example, when I said right now, Hey, yesterday I was working a little bit too hard. I'm a little bit stressed. I think that's probably relatable for 99 percent of us. But the secret really lies in, asking the question at the end.
[00:06:42] Philipp Humm: And that's the toughest part. And maybe I don't know whether I actually did it right now with you. Well, but that's the question where you want to ask the other person that gets a story in return. So for example, if I shared something, Hey, I just started this new hobby. I could ask you, Hey, what about you?
[00:06:58] Philipp Humm: When was the last time you started a new hobby? Or if I tell a story about me getting upset about some small thing, then I could ask after, Hey, what about you? When was the last time you got, Upset about some very small, insignificant thing. So you want to ask for a specific moment in time, like the when and the where.
[00:07:16] Corey Quinn: And I love that it's, so it's a when and where it's not a yes, it's not a, you know, a question that could be answered with yes or no. It's not, have you been, you know, stressed lately? It's more about like, when was the last time you, and the other piece of it is I'm gathering as I'm hearing this is. It needs to be, as you said, relatable, something that I could easily go into my experience and be able to say, yes, I have had a habit before, or yes, I've felt stressed about it.
[00:07:39] Corey Quinn: So you're not, you're not introducing a topic that there's a risk, let's say of, asking them something that they just have no, no context for.
[00:07:47] Philipp Humm: That's it. For example, today on my mind is writing my third book, right? If I had now told, ah, yes, I'm so happy that I'm almost finished my third book. What about you? Have you written a third book? Obviously that would be zero relatable, right?
[00:08:01] Corey Quinn: I love that. So the connection stories, it sounds like, what I'm gathering is that the power in this is really creating an opportunity to move from a sort of more of a transactional arm's length conversation to a human to human type of conversation where, Hey, we're just getting to know each other, but Hey, we've just covered some common ground to make, uh, to make this conversation more friendly and more approachable.
[00:08:22] Corey Quinn: I love that. Anything else about the connection stories that are worth, diving into?
[00:08:26] Philipp Humm: I would say, just give it a try. I know some people are like, ah, this sounds awful. Like to tell my story unsolicited, never going to do this. I can relate to that. I'm actually introverted. I know it may not seem right now, but usually it's pretty awkward at first. What I would suggest, just gather your own data points.
[00:08:45] Philipp Humm: There's no easier way to find out where that works than for those connection stories. Every single day you're being asked, how are you? Like dozens and dozens of times. So just take one or two of those moments. Respond with a connection story and see yourself where the conversation is going
[00:09:02] Corey Quinn: So as an introvert, fellow introvert, I would probably approach this speaking personally that I would probably write out a couple of questions I would ask in that situation, be prepared, right? And then be able to ask that and to see what happens. That's how I think I would approach it.
[00:09:17] Philipp Humm: You want to plan it in advance at the beginning where you're saying, Oh, I have a bunch of meetings today. Is there anything interesting that has happened lately?
[00:09:24] Corey Quinn: I love that. Now you mentioned the second type of story or third, the second area where a story can come in is really around, you know, once they've identified the problem, how would you approach that part of the sales conversation from a story perspective?
[00:09:39] Philipp Humm: Yeah. Once you understand the problem, you can then ask them, Hey, customer X, right? Hey, hey Mike. Um, that's, that's a tough problem. It reminds me a little bit of situation. Another customer was in like a year back. Would it be helpful if I shared what that customer was going through? And then actually pause, right?
[00:09:59] Philipp Humm: Ask the other person, do they actually want to hear your story? And if they say, yeah, sure. Cool. Let bring it on. Then you go into your story. So it's almost like you want to transition a little bit into it smoothly. You want to weave it into your conversation.
[00:10:13] Corey Quinn: you want to get permission.
[00:10:15] Philipp Humm: to get permission and then once And then what happens cool, we're, we're good to go.
[00:10:20] Philipp Humm: Then you can launch into the story. And that story is then ideally about a customer, a similar customer to the one that you're talking about that had a similar problem that that customer has. And then you talk a little bit about what that problem was, how you helped overcome that problem and what the result was at the end.
[00:10:39] Corey Quinn: I often hear like a good story in this context of a success story or let's call it, you know, a customer story, um, that you have to include some data as well as sort of the emotional transformation. And I don't know if that resonates with you, but the idea is that, you had this customer come in, this is in a context of a success story, they were struggling with, this data point and this emotional sort of struggle, let's say they didn't have confidence or they were concerned about the future of their business, and they were not getting enough leads.
[00:11:11] Corey Quinn: As a result of my system, they were able to, double the number of leads as well as go from being, concerned to confident. Does that, does that typically, would you recommend that type of approach? Did you find that working?
[00:11:23] Philipp Humm: that approach works really well. The only modification I would do is the moment that you talk about a customer story, bring in the dialogue of that moment, because imagine if I told you a story and I'd be like, okay. Then the client was unhappy. They did revenue dropped and then the client was super happy afterwards.
[00:11:42] Philipp Humm: And, uh, we were the best it can. If you go all the way, it It can sound that you're bragging, right? You're like, we're the best on this planet. So what I would suggest is use dialogue of the key moment of the story. Every single time your story has more than one person, you can share the exact words.
[00:12:02] Philipp Humm: that were set in that crucial moment of the story. So for example, with the customer, let's say the first meeting you have, Hey, two weeks ago, I'm meeting my customer and right within two minutes, he said, Corey, like, I don't know what's going on, but in the last two weeks, we lost 30 percent of our existing customers.
[00:12:21] Philipp Humm: Like if that goes on like that, we're fucked. And so what are the exact words that were used in that specific moment? That could be during the challenge, but it can also be at the end. So for example, if you say, Oh yes, the customer was very happy. It's not very emotional. It's not very visual. But if you say three weeks later, my customer called me and said, wow, Philip, I was on stage yesterday.
[00:12:48] Philipp Humm: And guess what? I actually, I love being on stage. Just wanted to thank you.
[00:12:53] Corey Quinn: This is much more powerful than just saying, Oh, he was very happy. And so we use the exact words that were used in that crucial moment of the story.
[00:13:01] Corey Quinn: So I love that. I think it's a nuanced point, but it is very powerful. You know, I think about a resume, right? When you're looking for a job, you build up a resume and you send it into a hiring manager. Well, that resume is only going to have the good stuff, right? It's not going to talk about that time that you got fired or that you had a, had a disagreement with your boss.
[00:13:21] Corey Quinn: And it's almost like these client success stories are something pretty similar where it's like, okay, I, I, As a buyer or as a prospective customer, I'm going to be told this story. And of course, it's going to have a good ending. So it's almost like I can mentally check out a little bit. Cause I already know how the story's going to end, but it's when you bring in the dial, you said the dialogue of the moment, that I think those are the words you used and using the exact words.
[00:13:44] Corey Quinn: I think that that brings it to much, makes it much more relatable. And you're, you know, what you said around using their words and repeating their words as if you were them. That's, that's gold. I love that.
[00:13:59] Philipp Humm: And for that to work, you want to also pick some more concise, some more raw, some more juicy dialogue. Because if I said then, well, in that moment, my customer called me and said, well, I'm Well, we are, um, slightly disappointed with the optimization of the supply chain. Well, that's still zero memorable, right?
[00:14:19] Philipp Humm: And so I know oftentimes we don't remember exactly what someone said, let's say one or two years back or a couple of years back there, you have some sort of creative freedom. Sure. Your story should be as truthful as possible. But hey, if you don't remember what someone said two years back, you can pick the words and make it slightly more concise as you feel it helps the story.
[00:14:42] Corey Quinn: yeah, it brings the feeling tone into the story. And I think that there's the old saying that people won't remember what you said, but they'll remember the way you made them feel right. And if you're able to help them to transport themselves into that buyer and that story, I think that's really powerful from a sales context perspective.
[00:14:59] Corey Quinn: Yeah. What other aspects of a customer story, you want to ask for permission, you want to find a similar customer who had a similar pain point you want to use the dialogue of the moment. Are there any other aspects that should be brought into this type of story?
[00:15:13] Philipp Humm: I guess one thing is you are not the hero. I know even if we have a customer story, the tendency is then to make it all about ourselves. So we're like, Hey, we're this customer, that problem. And now it's me five minutes talking about how awesome I am. Don't do that. At the end, when you share a customer story, you go deep into the pain point that that customer had, and then what did they do?
[00:15:35] Philipp Humm: Sure. You helped. But you are just there, the helper. Right. I think in Nancy Duarte's book, she called it You are Yoda and the customer is Luke Skywalker. You're just the guide that is helping out. Don't make yourself the hero.
[00:15:49] Corey Quinn: this brings me back to when I was a chief marketing officer at a large company and we had a, a hundred person sales organization. And we were learning about this idea of not being the hero, that we are not the hero, that the, the, the prospect of the customer is the hero.
[00:16:05] Corey Quinn: And you can't have two heroes in the same story, right? one hero, Luke Skywalker. And so we, we were realizing that, Hey. We need to rethink our, uh, about ourselves as the guide. And I went straight to our sales presentation and in our sales presentation, it had photos of our building about our, about our team, about our, all of our accolades.
[00:16:25] Corey Quinn: And there's, there's a time and place for a little bit of that, but it was really kind of clear that we were trying to say like, look how great we are. Look how many things we've done and all these things. We, all those awards we've won and so on and so forth. But And through that lens of where the guide and the client is the hero, it was obvious how wrong we were in approaching this, this conversation, these types of conversations.
[00:16:47] Corey Quinn: And ultimately creating friction because we were battling with the true hero saying that we're the hero and they're really the hero.
[00:16:55] Philipp Humm: Gotcha. . And after that you changed all the photos.
[00:16:59] Corey Quinn: Yeah. We changed the photos and we made it much more story driven as a result. You know, we realized that it was about them and not about us. So now once you've created a connection story and you've told a customer success story, you mentioned a third area is about creating a story about being different, like how, you know, a differentiation story.
[00:17:18] Corey Quinn: Can you talk a little bit about what that is and how it sort of fits within the sales context?
[00:17:23] Philipp Humm: You had one point in the sales cycle. Your buyer will inevitably ask themselves, Hey, why you write, why should I work with you? And maybe they don't make it explicit, but it's in the top of their minds. Like, Hey, we have 10 other providers. Why you? And so a tendency often of the people is just to throw in a bunch of data points, say, ah, we're the greatest, we operate in 30 different markets.
[00:17:47] Philipp Humm: And so to just put all that stuff out there. And we all know, like, Everyone is a number one in something, right? Everyone is a bestseller. Everyone is an award winner. Everyone is. So it's very easy for each one of your competitors to say exactly the same thing that they are really good at some stuff. And so what do you want to do in those moments is you want to share a story that really shows how you're different.
[00:18:12] Philipp Humm: A story that backs it up. So think of the claim that you want to make. What is the claim that you want to make to the customer? Is it maybe, hey, We're here for you 24/7 Maybe it's that, um, we increase, we triple your revenue. Each one of those claims that you want to make, is there a story that backs that up? And so then instead of just making that claim, you then share a story that really brings that claim to life.
[00:18:39]
[00:19:24] Corey Quinn: I love that. I love that. So not just, it's not good enough just to have claims and do the trust me sale. It's let me tell you a story about a real world situation where someone just like you, achieved this, um, this outcome that supports our claim effectively. What else about it should be true for it to be impactful?
[00:19:42] Philipp Humm: One thing that you want to make sure. That it's maybe not a too generic claim either. Let's say, Hey, wow. We put the customer first while we've all heard that a million times. And so maybe there's something a little bit more unique about your claim that not everyone else is saying.
[00:19:58] Corey Quinn: So in the world of agencies, the world that I operate in and that a lot of the listeners live in is. You know, you have these buyers, these people who are coming to their sales process who are very skeptical. Maybe they've been burned by someone else. Maybe they have, um, they, they had a bad experience with another agency.
[00:20:18] Corey Quinn: So they come in like they're, the energy is like their arms are crossed. They're hesitant to be there. They don't really want to be on the sales call with this, this, uh, this agency. How could you use stories or storytelling to sort of address that objection about like, we've been burned by other agencies, any ideas on how to approach that for the agency owner?
[00:20:38] Philipp Humm: Yeah, first. And I would probably say. Instead of launching into a story straight away, just try to understand what happened, right? Because oftentimes we hear an objection. We're like, okay, you guys are too expensive. And then you're like, okay, let me jump into story. Now that's too early. Like, Hey, what's actually the objection?
[00:20:57] Philipp Humm: Like what is behind that? Then you can ask, Hey, you mentioned that, it's a little bit out of your budget. What's, what do you have in mind, right? Or what are the set of come from? And so you try to go a few layers deeper. What's the real problem here? And only once you have then identified the real problem behind the objection, then you can launch into the story.
[00:21:18] Philipp Humm: And then ideally, you want to pick a story that addresses that objection. So you can say, Another customer like that I worked with a year back, she was also concerned about price. She said, Hey, if I do this, like, Hey, if this doesn't work out, then yeah, I'm pretty much broke. And then you go into your story, right?
[00:21:34] Philipp Humm: And then you tell them the full story around this, how this was an initial concern, but at the end, how you just exceeded so much the expectation that it never came up that instead, actually that customer is still with you. And today more than happy, happier than ever.
[00:21:49] Corey Quinn: Yeah. I love that. So just to feed that back to you, just get really clear on the true objection. So they may feed you an objection, but it's through, uh, you know, active listening, good questions to really get to the core of it. And then once you have that validate it and then go, that's the time to go into a
[00:22:04] Philipp Humm: That's it. Yeah.
[00:22:05] Corey Quinn: Yeah. from a sales perspective, I I'm a big fan of. Understanding what the common objections are, like what we're talking about, and then having a story that you could pair with each one of those. Kind of like the claims that you, that you mentioned, like having a paired client story with each objection.
[00:22:21] Corey Quinn: It's pretty
[00:22:21] Philipp Humm: Yeah. I love this. This is very effective.
[00:22:24] Corey Quinn: how does the fact that we are selling through virtual environments and zoom and all these different sort of platforms, how does that medium change your approach to storytelling?
[00:22:33] Corey Quinn: If, If at all, like, how do how should you adapt your storytelling approach if you are selling through zoom?
[00:22:40] Philipp Humm: I would say it doesn't make a massive difference. The only significant difference that I see, sure, it's a little bit harder to read the energy in the room. And so what you can choose is to pause your story more often. And I know people think, okay, I just have to tell this two minute story. And then I'm good.
[00:23:00] Philipp Humm: Like it doesn't have to be that way, especially in a customer conversation, make it a conversation. Like, this is not a TED talk. This is not where you speak for like 15 minutes and share your beautiful thoughts on the world. It is, for example, when you have a customer story, you can ask them first for permission.
[00:23:17] Philipp Humm: Then you launch into your story. After you share the, the problem that the customer faced, you can then ask, Hey, um, But should I share how that other customer overcame that problem? You ask again for permission, then you go into the solution so you can break up the story a few times and actually check in with the other person, whether they're interested.
[00:23:35] Philipp Humm: And when they're like, yeah, please tell me, then you can go on. But that's a little bit more, um, it helps you more to get read. get some feedback, whether they actually want to hear the story or not.
[00:23:45] Corey Quinn: Yeah. I think that's so important. Um, you know, I, I think about, I do workshops and one of the things I've learned along the way in a workshop environment is just asking for the audience to participate. Like, jump in the chat and tell me what you think. And I think that's definitely true for a zoom environment on one on one even just make it more of a.
[00:24:05] Corey Quinn: Of a conversation back and forth, the game of tennis versus, you know, I'm on the podium and I'm going to talk for, for an hour at you.
[00:24:14] Philipp Humm: I guess on online, it can sometimes be a little bit also mental talk. Cause I noticed sometimes when I give a workshop and I tell stories, I'm like, fuck, right. I'm talking here for so much. Are people even listening? Because sometimes you don't know, right? You're looking in the camera. And so you're not getting that feedback.
[00:24:30] Philipp Humm: So it's more then of the internal struggle that you have to deal with. And Of still, let's say, keeping up the confidence there, being truthful to your story. And so I think it's much more of an inner game that is harder online than in person.
[00:24:43] Corey Quinn: How do you, um, you know, how do you prepare for that or how do you succumb or overcome? I should say that, that, um, potential doubt that internal doubt.
[00:24:53] Philipp Humm: To be honest, I still struggle with that quite a bit. That being said, a few things have helped me to have less of that in a critic. Anytime that I share a story, I just tell myself a few things I'm grateful for. I just tell myself, Hey, Philip, so awesome that you tried out this new story.
[00:25:09] Philipp Humm: Like you're taking a risk, you're growing, you're trying to connect. And so I just do so much grateful self talk after sharing the story that this will hopefully shift in the long run. Just how comfortable I am telling stories in any opportunity.
[00:25:24] Corey Quinn: that also kind of segues into another area of expertise. You wrote another book about speaking in public, right? And, I think it's like the second most feared. Thing for humans across the world is getting up in front of a crowd and speaking. And I think you have some expertise that the audience can really benefit from, as it relates to public speaking.
[00:25:46] Corey Quinn: Many of us, myself included, when I work with agency founders, one of the areas where they could build expertise is by getting on stage. And by talking in front of people and a lot of people, a lot of us don't have either a lot of experience or just feel comfortable doing that. What are some ways that someone who maybe wants to speak more on stages could, approach this idea of public speaking, whether or not includes storytelling, but just the actual, art and science of public speaking?
[00:26:13] Corey Quinn: What general advice would you give someone who's just starting down the road?
[00:26:17] Philipp Humm: Yeah, that has changed a little bit over the years, but I feel that right now it's actually something that I feel very strongly that this is the most powerful way on how to get good at public speaking. Before that, I thought like, okay, I'll do some mindset hacks, blah, blah, blah. But today I realized the most effective way to become a better speaker is just through improvisation.
[00:26:40] Philipp Humm: And sure, it can be joining an improv group. That's awesome. Always works. But it's improvising at home. So you get a random topic. Let's say random debate topics. Should school uniforms be legal? Boom, you set the timer. Three minutes. Bam. You just start. You go for this. Or you get a random topic. You, you get five random objects.
[00:26:58] Philipp Humm: Let's say an apple, a cardboard, a book. A, um, whatever do we have? Glass. And then you just start improvising a story or a speech on those objects for like two, three minutes. And so improv is the most powerful tool to become a better speaker. Why does it matter so much? Because The best speakers, they're not the ones that prepare the most, but the best speakers are the ones that bounce back the quickest from any mistakes.
[00:27:28] Philipp Humm: And so mistakes will inevitably happen, right? On stage like this happens when you speak all the time, but How do you respond in that moment? Is it that you freeze and you're like, uh Or do you like, Hey, I've been in that so many times. Like I know this stuff. anything could happen right now. And I'd be fine with that.
[00:27:51] Philipp Humm: And that comfort that only comes through improvising more. And so if I had to pick anything that I would recommend anyone, and that I still do today to just become a better speaker is to improvise more.
[00:28:05] Corey Quinn: So let me feed that back to you. By the way, you're reminding me I did a improv class and it was it was ha ha
[00:28:13] Corey Quinn: I was I was it was when I was a full time salesperson and I was trying to get out of my shell a little bit Right because in improv you're you're on stage and they say You're in a grocery store go You just have to talk right it's that same thing where you have these These five different things and I remember being really intimidated the whole time because I was in front of strangers who I didn't know But it was also very liberating knowing that I could just Stream of consciousness go and talk.
[00:28:45] Corey Quinn: And in that, in that little skit, you know, whatever comes out of my mouth, it's yes. Right. It's okay. Like whatever it is. And they're just going to go with it. Right. So there's no, it was, it was, um, oddly Fun and, intimidating at the same time. But I think the benefit was that I was able to be more free in, in the moment as, as we are, uh, right now. So, I love this idea of just, you know, free forming on, talking and being able to, uh, just talk it, uh, about some innate object for a couple minutes. Being able to do that, have comfort around that.
[00:29:20] Corey Quinn: I love that.
[00:29:21] Philipp Humm: Yeah.
[00:29:21] Corey Quinn: other advice? Yeah.
[00:29:24] Philipp Humm: I guess the one that can be helpful as well. And that one is a little bit more extreme is, is an exercise that I discovered in New York while I was doing my MBA there. And so I still remember on this one day I I'd read this article about this new concept and I thought back then I was terrified of public speaking and I thought, hold on.
[00:29:42] Philipp Humm: Okay, let me give it a try. So I grabbed my jacket. I went outside and I saw a man approaching me and I'm like, uh, Hi, Sarah. Excuse me. Can I give you a hug? And the man was like, Oh yeah, sure. Bring it in. And he gives me this awkward man hug. And, then I tried the same with women. She didn't want to hug me, but as I stood there, I started an exercise called constructive embarrassment.
[00:30:06] Philipp Humm: And so constructive embarrassment is about putting yourself on purpose in embarrassing situations. And so that can be anything that can be asking a stranger for a hug, that can be high fiving a stranger, going to a grocery store and singing there for the crowd in the grocery store. The options are really infinite, but constructive embarrassment is just so powerful because when you do that stuff, you stop caring so much what other people think.
[00:30:37] Philipp Humm: Because What is the fear of public speaking? We care so much because we care how other people perceive us, whether they will judge us, whether they will think we're intelligent, whether they think we're qualified. We're so worried how other people perceive us. And so by being so worried about that, it's impossible to be in the moment, to have fun, to be a great speaker.
[00:30:59] Philipp Humm: And so constructive embarrassment, is the most powerful tool to get over that fear of rejection, over that fear of judgment. And so that is really, really powerful. Not everyone is ready to do that because yes, it's very awkward, but I've seen gigantic transformations for the people that have done that.
[00:31:17] Corey Quinn: So you have a, you have a YouTube channel that I love, binging on because you actually share some of your experiences of this constructive embarrassment and you go, you share that journey that you're doing. You're leading by going first. And so if anyone here is, Interested in seeing Philip being, you know, constructively embarrassing himself And get the courage as a result of watching that it's definitely given me courage i've not yet done the the hugging challenge, but I think that that is something that I would only improve my life
[00:31:50] Corey Quinn: I love the idea of constructive embarrassment. Well, what's been, besides hugging, have you, have you tried other things or what other things have you tried?
[00:31:58] Philipp Humm: Yeah. I can give you my top three most awkward ones if you want to.
[00:32:02] Corey Quinn: Please let's go.
[00:32:04] Philipp Humm: One, definitely singing in a full New York subway. Random reggaeton song that was very awkward just because subway is a closed space where you cannot escape from, like you have to wait until next stop. So that was super, super awkward.
[00:32:19] Philipp Humm: Another one, which I don't know why I struggled so much with that, but it's walking into a restaurant and then pretending to be a waiter. So you walk up to a table and you're like, Oh, hello, welcome to blah, blah, blah. Can I take your order? You then pretend to take the order and then you walk outside again.
[00:32:34] Philipp Humm: I don't know why I find it so hard, but it was so difficult. And then the third one, yeah, that one was difficult for me. I know for me, maybe the American crowd even more, but I went here to a, nudist beach. I went to a nudist beach and I interviewed a bunch of people also in nude. And so, yeah,
[00:32:54] Philipp Humm: well,
[00:32:55] Corey Quinn: that go?
[00:32:55] Philipp Humm: It went well, it went better than expected, but yeah, definitely showed me as well that, Hey, I still have quite some shame left in there.
[00:33:04] Corey Quinn: Now this is a video that you have on your YouTube channel, as I recall.
[00:33:08] Philipp Humm: So I I'm actually debating whether I should take it down.
[00:33:12] Corey Quinn: Honestly, I think it's, uh, it, for me, I'll speak personally, but it gives me courage to do things that are potentially embarrassing or that I would perceive to be embarrassing. So I hope you don't take it down. All of this has been wonderful. I love all the tactical advice you've been giving, giving Philip.
[00:33:30] Corey Quinn: That's really what is, what people come to this show for. So, um, Um, I will, I'll ask you two last questions as we wrap up here. What would be your parting advice, particularly for, let's say an agency founder who is struggling with leveraging storytelling in their sales process? What is the one bit of feedback or advice that you would give them to get started down this road?
[00:33:55] Philipp Humm: Tell micro stories, like don't think about the full story, but just. Pick the next situation, next meeting and just come with an intention and you say, Hey, today I'm going to share this tiny story when someone asks me, how are you? Or today I'm going to share just this one snippet of a successful client as a customer success story.
[00:34:12] Philipp Humm: And just as one snippet, that's it. So set yourself the intention to tell a micro story that takes like 10 to 20 seconds and then slowly build your way up. That's
[00:34:23] Corey Quinn: I love it. So that's a great actionable advice. And then one last question for you, Philip, you are the author of two books about to have your third, you have a great YouTube channel that again, I recommend people go find and subscribe. Great content. What's your motivation?
[00:34:39] Philipp Humm: a big question. I guess for. Public speaking and storytelling, the motivation came from lack. And it's mostly that, yeah, I was, I was never a good speaker. I was never a storyteller at all. And so I just felt that years and years, this was just holding me back crazy. Sure, I had decent jobs, but I felt like every single time I had to present, I just started to freak out.
[00:35:10] Philipp Humm: And I saw the toll that that had on my life, on my happiness, like not being able to communicate well your ideas, getting terrified of public speaking. It just puts so much pressure like it becomes this everything in life and that's a terrible feeling to have And I feel right now that, Hey, if I can help anyone not have that same feeling and actually just feel free to communicate, free to share the ideas, free to go for whatever they want to.
[00:35:40] Philipp Humm: I I'm very happy for everything that I can do to be part of that.
[00:35:45] Corey Quinn: That's, that's amazing. It's, it is real. Um, you know what you were feeling, obviously you're not alone in that. There's many of us that struggle in this area. And I love that you have dedicated your career, writing books, have courses, YouTube channels, everything to helping people through that. So I think that's really beautiful.
[00:36:04] Corey Quinn: Where can people reach out to you to learn more about you? Maybe, you know, find you online. Where should people connect with you?
[00:36:09] Philipp Humm: Yeah. I would say the two places that I hang out the most is probably LinkedIn and YouTube. I have an Instagram, but it's mostly for my dancing videos. Um, but no, mostly I would say YouTube and LinkedIn, otherwise also my website, it's power of storytelling. com. So power of storytelling. com. And yeah, just drop me a note and let me know if you have any questions when it comes to storytelling or public speaking.
[00:36:38] Corey Quinn: Beautiful. So I will make sure those links are in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining up.
[00:36:44] Philipp Humm: Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Corey.
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