DS 82_Cris Rodriguez_Full Edited Audio
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[00:00:00] Cris Rodriguez: And it was like this light bulb going off of the opportunity cost that trying to run all of these other businesses. Was, was, was costing me and it was like, where would I be if this was the only focus, it was the only thing that I went in on best known beats best. I, I want to be the best, but I also want to be best known competition to me, gets me fired up.
[00:00:22] Cris Rodriguez: It doesn't get me upset. I'm not looking at this as a, as a sprint. This is a marathon. My ultimate goal is to build this company so big that it can house every single one of my team members dreams.
[00:00:35] Corey Quinn: The extent to which. The employees love the brand and love the company is the extent to which your customers will love working with you.
[00:00:43] Cris Rodriguez: At the end of the day, in the most simplistic form, that is what business is. It's about relationships.
[00:00:49] Corey Quinn: Welcome to the Deep Specialization podcast, the show where we blend focus, strategy, and client intimacy in order to scale and simplify our businesses and our lives. I'm your host, Corey Quinn. Let's jump into the show.
[00:01:02] Corey Quinn: Today, I'm joined by founder and visionary, Chris Rodriguez. Her agency serves over 450 martial arts schools across the U S. Making it the leader in digital marketing in this market, in this vertical market. She also has a first degree black belt Brazilian juujitsu, and a third degree black belt in TaeKwonDo.
[00:01:25] Corey Quinn: She brings over 30 years of martial arts experience to her clients, which I love that you are both a, uh, martial arts studio owner, business owner, as well as an agency working with this, this audience you founded the Gracie Pac MMA and. This, I love this too. You are also a consultant for the martial arts industry association.
[00:01:48] Corey Quinn: So a lot to unpack here. Welcome, Chris.
[00:01:52] Cris Rodriguez: Thanks so much, Corey, excited to be here and, uh, share some value with our listeners.
[00:01:57] Corey Quinn: Beautiful. So just a little bit of context about the business you have today. We're going to go back into when you got started and your journey, but today, uh, about how many employees do you have?
[00:02:09] Cris Rodriguez: We have 35 employees and our agency model is a little bit different than most. They are all U. S. based in office. They are literally right outside the door of my office. We don't have one VA on the team, so little bit different business model than most.
[00:02:28] Corey Quinn: Okay. Well, I'm curious to learn more about that.
[00:02:31] Corey Quinn: We'll definitely dive in to, to that. You mentioned, uh, in your bio that you are a visionary, uh, for the agency. What does that mean? Like, what is your day to day look like these days?
[00:02:42] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah. So we are huge fans of EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system I self implemented in my martial arts school back in 2015 and started implementing immediately in 2019 when we started the agency.
[00:02:57] Cris Rodriguez: And in EOS, you don't typically have the CEO, COO dynamic. You have a visionary and you have an integrator. So yes, I sit in the visionary seat, but I also sit in other seats as well. Eventually the goal is to solely sit in the visionary role, but, uh, I lean more towards sales and marketing. My integrator leans more towards fulfillment.
[00:03:22] Cris Rodriguez: So my day to day is a lot of content creation from written to video, to podcasts, to webinars, a lot of education, uh, which is a key component that we add as a service into our agency offerings. Um, and a lot of leading the team. Um, I am the culture lighthouse. I am here to not just set the vision, but get everybody excited about that vision.
[00:03:51] Cris Rodriguez: And. My ultimate goal is to build this company so big that it can house every single one of my team members dreams inside, so I really live in the future a lot, probably too much. I wish I could be a little bit more present in the day to day, but I'm constantly thinking about the next step, the next thing.
[00:04:12] Cris Rodriguez: And I am really like the main focus is on developing JV partnerships. So every JV partnership away from a million dollar agency. And that has really been one of our main marketing strategies is developing JV partnerships with licensees, franchise companies, coaching companies, retail companies, basically, you know, every other service provider in the martial arts industry, trying to develop a relationship with them so that it's a win win, not just for their clients, but also for ours.
[00:04:46] Cris Rodriguez: So I spend a lot of time on those big relationships, uh, as the visionary.
[00:04:52] Corey Quinn: Fantastic. So I definitely want to dive into that. If you wouldn't mind just kind of taking us through sort of the, the origin story specifically. Did you start the agency with a, you know, with an intended focus on the martial arts, you know, industry, if you will?
[00:05:09] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, I mean, I, I knew I was gonna be in the martial arts industry, uh, since I was a little girl. I started training when I was eight years old. That was the dream, open up a school. And I kind of set a goal of hitting half a million dollars in my martial arts school and for a brick and mortar martial arts school Half a million is actually a very successful martial arts school.
[00:05:30] Cris Rodriguez: And we did that in, in a few years and like under three years. And I was always a big fan of Facebook ads and Google ads and digital marketing. That's one of the main ways we grew our martial arts school and other school owners saw that. And they were like, Chris, like, how are you growing so quickly? You have so many students.
[00:05:49] Cris Rodriguez: And I was like, well, I just run Facebook ads and Google ads. And they were like. Well, will you teach me? I have a degree in education. I've been teaching martial arts since I was 11 years old. I love to teach. So I said, sure. So I launched an eight week marketing mastermind course specific for martial arts school owners.
[00:06:06] Cris Rodriguez: Charged 500 bucks for it. We spent four weeks on Facebook, two weeks on Instagram, two weeks on Google. And at the end of the eight weeks, they were like, Chris, this was amazing, we learned so much, but we don't want to do this stuff. Like, it's too complicated. It's, it takes too much time. Will you just do it for us?
[00:06:25] Cris Rodriguez: And I said, no. I said, um, that really wasn't the purpose. I thought I'd launch this eight week course. I'd make like 15 grand, pocket it. That'd be cool. Put it in an investment. And I ran the eight week course again, cause I had more people asking about it. Same thing, end of the eight weeks, Chris, we loved it, but we don't want to do it.
[00:06:42] Cris Rodriguez: Will you just do it for me? And, it, there was a need, uh, we had people basically begging. So, I took on ten clients, and realized, damn, I just bought myself another job. And, uh, that's really how GroPro was born. This was back in April of 2019. And I was wearing all the hats, doing all the things and saw that there was really a need for professionalism in the agency space in the martial arts industry.
[00:07:13] Cris Rodriguez: There were a handful of well known agencies, but the feedback you'd get from the clients is, Oh, they're super communicative until they get your credit card, then you can't get on the phone with them. There's no proactive outreach. So I really wanted to create a professional agency in our industry, which is.
[00:07:31] Cris Rodriguez: Really what kind of guided the name grow pro agency. It stands for growth professionals. And I ultimately did not want to be doing the fulfillment work. So I started hiring 10 99 contractors to help with fulfillment. And grew the thing to about 30, 000 in MRR and then COVID hit. And I am a fan of when everybody goes to the left, I'm going to go to the right.
[00:07:57] Cris Rodriguez: And as everybody was starting to build remote teams and offices, I said, you know what, I'm, I'm like, I'm going in person. So I got rid of my 1099 contractors. I started hiring employees in house because I just felt. That I was a better leader in person because I knew how to lead people in my martial arts school, which was in person.
[00:08:19] Cris Rodriguez: And my leadership style just kind of worked better in person. So we shifted during COVID and that's when we found Josh Nelson of seven figure agency immediately joined. And we were one of those companies that saw a hundred percent growth, uh, from 2020 to 2021. Once the PPP loans started coming in and the EIDL loans, really the only way you could advertise a martial arts school was online.
[00:08:46] Cris Rodriguez: So we were actually one of those fortunate companies that exploded, uh, during, during COVID and we saw continuous growth and continue to see growth. Uh, we've made the Inc 5, 000 list two years in a row and currently now 30, 14 members and 490 clients.
[00:09:06] Corey Quinn: So you're almost at the 500. Congratulations on all of that.
[00:09:11] Corey Quinn: It sounds like, so just to feed some of this back to you. So back in April of 2019, you had run this, this, uh, cohort of folks through this training. They loved it. They didn't want to do the work, do it for me. So that was sort of the Genesis behind it. And you also notice, notice that there were other agencies out there, but not really taking, doing it professionally necessarily is what I'm taking, right?
[00:09:33] Corey Quinn: They're not really. Uh, taking care of their clients. How has the competition changed over the years now that, you know, the, sort of, the world has turned a little bit. We're now jumping into 2025 and vertical specialization is, is much more common, I would say, than back then. How do you position yourself and how do you differentiate yourself today in more of a crowded market?
[00:09:55] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, I mean, I always have an abundance mindset. Um, you know, it seems like every week there's a new marketing agency popping up in my feed advertising to martial arts schools and competition to me gets me fired up. It doesn't get me upset. It helps to keep me motivated. Um, but I do think that there, there's enough for all of us to win and the market based off of how the agency performs, uh, is going to determine how, how long that agency is going to be around.
[00:10:27] Cris Rodriguez: So we see a lot of pop up agencies, saw a lot of them when Hormozy's books got released, uh, you know, and, and just kind of that bro marketer. Uh, you know, type of agency popping up, but, but they don't last. And, you know, our, our position is the fact that I am a martial artist. I am a school owner. Um, I know what it's like.
[00:10:50] Cris Rodriguez: I know the pain points of being in your school all day, every day. You know, with, with martial arts, that's a job that lasts until about 9, 10 PM at night, because people train after they work and kids go after school. So I, I know the pain points and because I am a martial artist and a school owner, there's, there's kind of a, an instant trust and bond that gets formed.
[00:11:14] Cris Rodriguez: About half of my team are also martial artists. They also train. And I think that plays a big role, but at the end of the day, it's, it's ultimately. The fact that I am a martial artist or one of our USPs is that, Hey, we're not outsourcing your campaigns to somebody in Pakistan. You're going to be able to reach us during normal working business hours.
[00:11:37] Cris Rodriguez: One of our core values is we are accessible, proactive, and communicative. Our clients can book same day Zoom, same day phone calls. They can email us, they can text us, they can call us. And we really are, uh, accessible to our clients, which is, you know, I think one of the biggest gripes that a lot of, uh, you know, businesses who use agencies kind of run into, right?
[00:11:59] Cris Rodriguez: Like, oh, you were super talkative during the sales process, but now you've kind of I think with that
[00:12:05] Corey Quinn: money, I can't seem to get ahold of you.
[00:12:07] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah. I also think, uh, you know, we invest a lot into our team being that it is all us based, you know, my payroll is a lot higher than an agency that would be outsourcing.
[00:12:21] Cris Rodriguez: And the reason why I do that is because I want to take this company to a hundred million. I'm not looking at this as a, as a sprint. This is a marathon. This is a lifelong endeavor for me. And I am okay with reinvesting our profits into growing the team and hiring more skillful people. I also think, uh, you know, there's some pride in being able to offer jobs to people in our community and helping the economy where I live in Tampa, Florida.
[00:12:50] Cris Rodriguez: And I think our numbers also. Showcase, right? You typically don't grow an agency to around 500 clients unless you're getting those clients results. They're not gonna stick around and we don't do long term contracts. It's a three month agreement and then they're on month to month. So the results that we're ultimately getting are our clients are, you know, Uh, the word of mouth basically gets around from that.
[00:13:14] Corey Quinn: So as a result of having a higher cost structure, be hiring folks, uh, locally, um, relative to your competition, who may be using overseas resources that may have a lower overhead costs. I imagine your, your fees are, are higher than your competition.
[00:13:30] Cris Rodriguez: They're actually not. We are probably the most cost effective, you know, we could have gone the higher ticket and only working with a smaller percentage of school owners.
[00:13:43] Cris Rodriguez: What you have to understand is like, you don't open up a martial arts school to become wealthy. You open up a martial arts school because you have a passion for teaching martial arts and most of them are Not competent business owners. They look at themselves as martial artists and that they're selling martial arts classes when they really should be looking themselves as a business owner who sells martial arts services.
[00:14:04] Cris Rodriguez: And I want to make as big of an impact as possible because this industry completely changed my life for the better. So. We're actually one of the most cost effective agencies, uh, in terms of our pricing. We have slowly been raising our rates per Josh Nelson's, uh, you know, coaching that he has given me.
[00:14:25] Cris Rodriguez: Um, but you know, our average client value is anywhere between 650 to 700 per client. So we're not selling big ticket, you know, 1500, 2, 000 a month packages.
[00:14:37] Corey Quinn: How would you say your retention rates compare to your competitors?
[00:14:40] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, so, you know, I think especially with lower ticket and when you're not doing websites or you're not offering a CRM, it's, it's harder to retain those clients.
[00:14:50] Cris Rodriguez: And I've heard some crazy stats. So we don't, because we don't do, we're a social media marketing agency. We don't do websites. We're not doing SEO. We, we don't, we have a CRM in terms of they have access to high level, but When they're not as, as stickier as that, at the end of the day, the, the most important aspect if you want to retain your clients is getting them results.
[00:15:09] Cris Rodriguez: I mean, that's just, you know, number one. You can't hide, you can't hide
[00:15:12] Corey Quinn: behind the, yeah, the, the website of these other products.
[00:15:15] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah. So last year in 2023, we were at a 4. 7 percent attrition rate, uh, average. And for us as a social media marketing agency, I've seen stats out there, you know, 10%, 15%, 20 percent churn for social media marketing agencies, which is crazy to me, and I wasn't happy with 4.
[00:15:35] Cris Rodriguez: 7 because. I know my numbers, I sit in the finance seat, and I know the impact that a simple 1 percent decrease in attrition going from 4. 7 to 3. 7 could literally add tens, multiple tens of thousands of dollars. To our bottom line. So this year was really all about retention with us. And, you know, happy to say that we've had a handful of quarters where we've been at 3%, 3.
[00:16:03] Cris Rodriguez: 2%, 3. 4 percent in terms of attrition. So lowering from that 4. 7, even though the number one way to keep your clients is with results. What we also have to understand is not every single month. Can we knock it out of the park with Facebook ads, right? There's seasonality, there's competition. So if you're not getting them great results, what's going to keep them there?
[00:16:26] Cris Rodriguez: It's the relationship. And at the end of the day, in the most simplistic form, that is what business is. It's about relationships. So we really focused on, you know, having multiple touch points with the clients, sending out NPS surveys, implementing software where we could get feedback from them. And we also assign customer health index scores.
[00:16:47] Cris Rodriguez: So cheese scores, and that was really helpful in understanding where our clients are at. And I think a lot of agencies use a traffic light system in terms of like metric data of how the ads are performing, right? Like if it's a 10 cost per lead, that's a, that's a green account. But there are other metrics that go into the customer health score besides just what the cost per lead is.
[00:17:11] Cris Rodriguez: So we built out our, our entire customer health index score. And really focus on the clients that, you know, we're, we're in that red or we're in that yellow area, trying to turn them into what we call green and purple customers. But you do that through building rapport. You do that through relationships.
[00:17:29] Cris Rodriguez: And the only way you can build relationships is through communication.
[00:17:33] Corey Quinn: Well, I think about it, it's, it's, it's making promises and keeping promises over and over and over. You build trust in a relationship. Yeah. So how do you, how do you foster relationships with these, what I would consider, uh, you know, a lower fee relative to other vertical markets.
[00:17:48] Corey Quinn: I understand this is healthy for your vertical market, but. If you look at HVAC, some of these other, uh, you know, these other verticals that they average value per month is in the thousands, multiple thousands in some respect. How do you build a relationship, a trusted person to person relationship with clients given, given your sort of constraints as a business?
[00:18:09] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, you know, I mean, we can look at this from like the 30, 000 view up of how I do it, versus how my team does it. I put out a piece of content every single day, video, reel, as well as a written post inside of a Facebook group. Every single one of our clients is inside of that Facebook group. We also use it for prospecting.
[00:18:27] Cris Rodriguez: You know, it's interesting that you could follow somebody and, and look at their content and actually feel like you know them. Uh, you know, I, I'll, I'll See clients that I've never met face to face, but they've been following me for years and they talk to me like they actually know me. So best known beats best.
[00:18:45] Cris Rodriguez: I, I want to be the best, but I also want to be best known. So just from a content perspective, when you put yourself out there and, uh, provide valuable information and education to people that can help develop a relationship. Um, I do have a love hate relationship with Facebook messenger. It's just kind of crazy that anybody, you know, can, can reach out to you, but we do so much business from people seeing content and then just reaching out via Facebook DM.
[00:19:14] Cris Rodriguez: So not only the content, but I also speak and I speak a lot. I had 24 speaking engagements this year alone, a lot of traveling. Um, that's probably one of my favorite things to do is speaking on stage. So I go to where my clients are at. I'm, I'm speaking at some of the biggest industry events, um, that coaching companies put on, and that gives me the face to face with them as well.
[00:19:38] Cris Rodriguez: We'll always set up a booth there. So that aspect allows me to have that, you know, relationship building time. And then I also teach a monthly masterclass every single month for our BroPro clients. And that's a really great way for me as the owner to get in front of them. And provide them with valuable information coaching in a group setting platform.
[00:20:01] Cris Rodriguez: So that's how I'm able to do it, you know, and then you have the, the, the small things like handwritten thank you notes. I mean, it's, it's as crazy as that sounds, uh, those work, right? Just taking some time to sit down and write handwritten thank you cards to your clients. And then we have the relationship that they have with their account manager, right?
[00:20:21] Cris Rodriguez: And that is going to ultimately be built with that proactive outreach. You know, my team knows, uh, every department has stipends that they can use, you know, a certain amount of money each month to send gifts to clients. I know you're really big on, uh, sending, you know, gifts and cookies specifically. Um, so that's, you know, that's kind of how you build that relationship.
[00:20:44] Cris Rodriguez: But at the end of the day, it's just like. Care, like care about the results that they are getting, you know,
[00:20:51] Corey Quinn: is so rare these days that that becomes the, if you can build care into the fabric of your business, it becomes a major competitive advantage. And so it sounds like you're, you're way down the road on that.
[00:21:02] Corey Quinn: So at some point you hired a salesperson at what point in your sort of agency specific. Journey. Uh, did you hire that? Did you realize like, Hey, I need to bring someone else in. And what was, how did that sort of unfold for you?
[00:21:17] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, it was right after we crossed the seven figure mark. Um, it was something that Josh Nelson was like begging me to do.
[00:21:25] Cris Rodriguez: And I was like, Josh, I really enjoy it. Like I get a dopamine hit every time. Like I sign up a new client. It wasn't like I hated sales. Um, and he said, well, I promise you the dopamine hit's gonna be a lot bigger when you're not involved in the sale. So I actually hired, uh, one of my best friend's nephew.
[00:21:43] Cris Rodriguez: He was a beekeeper, a beekeeper, zero sales experience, but he was hungry and, uh, you know, took about 60 to 90 days to get him onboarded. And that was a little over three and a half years ago. And he's literally in the room right behind me on a sales call right now. And that's something I'm really proud about because sales people usually don't last that long, uh, in, you know, in companies, uh, there's usually kind of high churn and jumping from one to one.
[00:22:12] Cris Rodriguez: Um, but yeah, his name's Tony. He's our business development rep and. I handed that off at the seven figure mark and Josh was a hundred percent correct. And believe it or not, Tony eventually started beating my closing rates. And it's because he was able to solely focus on sales and I was split focus and So many different areas and now we actually have a sales team.
[00:22:34] Cris Rodriguez: We have a manager, a BDR and an SDR, sales development rep. So a setter, a closer and a manager.
[00:22:40] Corey Quinn: So real quick, you launched the agency around April, 2019. At what point did you hit seven figures?
[00:22:46] Cris Rodriguez: It was almost about a year into us being in seven figure that we hit seven figure.
[00:22:52] Corey Quinn: Beautiful. And then, so yeah, with Tony, you brought in, uh, Tony, someone who didn't have a specific sales background, but that was hungry, was trainable.
[00:23:02] Corey Quinn: What did you do before Tony arrived to get ready to bring on that salesperson? Like what did you, did you have all the playbooks and all of the. You know, sort of the process is nailed down or was it more of organic conversations come, you know, shadow me for a little bit and we'll kind of work through this together.
[00:23:18] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah. I'm a ready fire aim kind of person. I think one of the biggest mistakes, uh, business owners make is they try to make everything perfect. Um, so I hired him. I did have recordings of all of my sales calls, you know, I did have a templated process, a checklist that I followed, a keynote that was shared on the screen, a very specific process, but I didn't have playbooks written out and You know, I mean, one thing that I did do is I basically bought every old school sales Brian Tracy Zig Ziglar book, and I required Tony to read them, and he actually had to write a book report after he Here I am, the teacher, right?
[00:23:57] Cris Rodriguez: I've got a degree in education. And it's like I paid him to read. So when he wasn't like, you know, when he was first getting training and getting trained and being onboarded, like go over to the beanbag and go read the book. Once you're done, write a, you know, a one page report on your major takeaways. But really what it looked like is just, he would sit in and watch me do the sales calls.
[00:24:18] Cris Rodriguez: Then eventually I would bring him on screen and just explain to the prospect like, Hey, this is one of our new hires. He's learning the process. Then, he would do it, both of us on screen, then he would do it, I would be off screen, and then finally he was doing it on his own, and in under 90 days he was taking those, those sales calls.
[00:24:37] Cris Rodriguez: So, um, yeah, I just think so many business owners try to make everything perfect, and it's this like, you know, paralysis by analysis, like, Hire the person and then you're going to have no choice, but to train them and to bring them on board. You know,
[00:24:51] Corey Quinn: you're committed at that point.
[00:24:53] Cris Rodriguez: Exactly.
[00:24:54] Corey Quinn: Hey, it's Corey. I wanted to take a quick break from the show to say that if you're an agency owner looking for a strategic and reliable white label partner, you should check out E2M.
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[00:25:33] Corey Quinn: Go check them out. Now back to the show.
[00:25:40] Corey Quinn: Content is obviously a very big part of what you do in order to attract new, new clients. You also mentioned the, the monthly training. You also speak on 24 stages this past year. One of the things that's interesting about your content, cause I do follow you, you, you have a mixture of jujitsu and martial arts specific training where you're teaching people about actual moves and situations, um, from a school perspective.
[00:26:04] Corey Quinn: And then you're also. Uh, talking to, uh, martial arts studio owners as well. Separate, separate content pieces, but you do both. Is that correct? Did I get that right?
[00:26:14] Cris Rodriguez: It is. Yes. And it's a very interesting strategy and happy to unpack why we do it. If you'd like. Yeah, I'm
[00:26:21] Corey Quinn: curious. Yeah. It'd be interesting to hear.
[00:26:23] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, so, you know, I started putting out business content every single day and really struggled to get views, really struggled to get comments, and it's, it's kind of, it's like chocolate and broccoli. It's, it's like the broccoli of business. And. I hired a company that, uh, specifically worked with a lot of martial artists to help them increase their following, but these martial artists had, like, online training programs that they could sell.
[00:26:52] Cris Rodriguez: And they were like, why don't you try this? Let's do half and half. We'll do 50 percent jiu jitsu videos, 50 percent business videos. And I was like, alright, well, just doing the business videos isn't landing. So let me try this, and we did some jiu jitsu videos, and my follower growth skyrocketed. Now, there are millions and millions and millions of martial arts practitioners, there's not that many martial arts school owners.
[00:27:17] Cris Rodriguez: But the thought process was, kind of anybody with a camera can be a business coach online today, and oftentimes people just aren't going to listen to that. So give them what they want, give them the chocolate first, which, um, if I'm a martial arts school owner and I see, A martial artist doing martial arts, like I'm going to watch that video.
[00:27:37] Cris Rodriguez: I'm going to follow you. Well, now you're going to get targeted with my business content as well. So it actually grew my follower count from like 4, 000 to over 50, 000 in a very, very short period of time. And 90 percent of the followers are martial artists, but 10 percent are business owners. Martial arts school owners and instructors.
[00:28:00] Cris Rodriguez: And I know, you know, we're both part of Dan Martell's group. He has a sale by chat, a sell by chat process that we implemented. And now when we see a follower that looks like a school owner, we're reaching out, you know, are you here for the content or are you, you know, needing help with your marketing? So, I will tell you that the follower count is more of an egotistical, like, Hey, I got a bunch of followers, there's a cool factor in it, there really is, I have people reaching out for sponsorships now.
[00:28:28] Cris Rodriguez: But, um, it also, now my business videos that were getting maybe like a hundred views, and I'm telling you my mom was probably 20 of the views just watching my video over and over again, to my business videos getting anywhere between 5, 10, 15, 000 views. So, uh, you know, I definitely got followers that don't equate new clients into GoPro, but it's just this concept of like, give them the chocolate first and then we can give them the broccoli.
[00:28:55] Corey Quinn: Well, I also think there's something else to this that you're, uh, you're implying, but I don't think you're, you haven't mentioned yet. And I think it's important, which is that. By being able to demonstrate that, you know, how to actually execute and do jujitsu at an elite level, the, the school owner who may be a good client will know that you understand them at a deeper level than someone who doesn't have that background.
[00:29:21] Corey Quinn: And that all of a sudden brings you out of the noise of the market and puts you, uh, completely separate in a separate sort of, uh, atmosphere, if you will. When it comes to solving the specific needs that they have, because they could talk to you in their specific language, very profound, a
[00:29:39] Cris Rodriguez: hundred percent.
[00:29:40] Cris Rodriguez: Yep. Knock that out of the park. I wish I said that.
[00:29:42] Corey Quinn: Well, I think you did say it. I just got, I just used different words, but you mentioned word of mouth is really important. Um, I imagine based on what you shared, a lot of the work that you do helps to generate word of mouth just by being present in the space, by being at the conferences, the associations on stages.
[00:30:00] Corey Quinn: Producing all this content, where do people find you originally? Like where, where does this word of mouth originate?
[00:30:06] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah. So a lot of it is from the JV partnerships that we have. So we have solidified some very, very big licensing companies, franchises. Um, and they help to market for us, right? Because we are a partner with them.
[00:30:22] Cris Rodriguez: So a lot of, you know, for a lot of people, that's where it originates. But my number one marketing strategy is Facebook ads. I mean, that's, uh, You know, constantly, I would say almost every week we're, you know, developing new campaigns and, and putting Facebook ads out. So that's, that's kind of the, you know, where I, where I can get them in.
[00:30:42] Cris Rodriguez: And then it all funnels back to this Facebook group. And then inside of the Facebook group, they're, you know, getting hit up, come check the website or, uh, you know, our webinars, you know, do you want to book a free discovery call, uh, you know, do you want to check out the podcast? So we try to funnel everything into this Facebook group where I'm providing this free content where I can just get in front of them.
[00:31:04] Cris Rodriguez: And, you know, share something that's really valuable that can help them. And it's a, it's a marathon marketing strategy. I started the group four years ago. We have about 3. 5 thousand, uh, school owners and instructors in the group. We are very particular about who we allow. You have to give, you know, name and email and what's your number one marketing strategy to get into the group.
[00:31:28] Cris Rodriguez: I am a stickler about what's allowed to be posted in there. You know, some Facebook groups, the host just kind of lets them run, you know, wild people are constantly pitching in there. Um, so yeah, I mean, our, our main marketing strategy besides just the content aspect, right. I, I really look at myself as a content creator that happens to sell digital marketing services for martial arts school owners.
[00:31:53] Cris Rodriguez: I look at myself as that content creator first.
[00:31:57] Corey Quinn: operationally, how do you, who manages the Facebook group in the organization?
[00:32:02] Cris Rodriguez: I have a marketing director that will set things up, but I write my own content. Um, I post my own content every morning. It's part of my morning business ritual. Um. You know, I, I think eventually I might feel comfortable letting that go, but I really enjoy it.
[00:32:22] Cris Rodriguez: And if it's something that I really enjoy, why wouldn't I, you know, spend time on it? I think it's a zone of genius for me. Um, so yeah, I'm the one that, uh, I'm, I'm the actual one that's writing the posts and that's, you know, replying to comments in there. Um, I look at that as, you know, part of my role of being the face of the company.
[00:32:42] Corey Quinn: That's awesome. And just from a workflow time, time blocking perspective, do you create all the content? On one day or, and then spread it out, like release it all throughout the week. Or, or are you doing daily content creation? How do you manage the volume?
[00:32:57] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, I'm a fan of batching weekly. I found kind of batching anything further out than weekly, you might be irrelevant to what's going on in the day to day in your industry or what's going on in the world.
[00:33:10] Cris Rodriguez: So Sunday morning, first thing when I wake up, sit down with a cup of coffee, open my laptop before my wife and my son are awake. That is like my prime time for creativity. Um, and that's when I batch my written content. Our video content, we actually batch 60 videos in two hours. And we do that once every two months.
[00:33:33] Cris Rodriguez: Um, I've gotten that down to, you know, really kind of. Really kind of quick turnaround so that I just have to kind of show up, be the talent, and then the videographer and the marketing director take it from there. The longest kind of aspect of the real content is coming up with the hooks. I will say it probably takes me about four hours to come up with 60 hooks.
[00:33:56] Cris Rodriguez: And, uh, that's really where I'll, I'll spend the bulk of my time, but I'm only doing that once every other month. Um, so I'm a fan of doing it in, in batches for sure.
[00:34:07] Corey Quinn: That's awesome. I've I recently went from creating content daily to doing weekly batches and it's changed my life. Yes So much better how important is it for you as a as an agency owner to hire people with a martial arts
[00:34:26] Cris Rodriguez: It's not. Um, honestly, the most important thing is do you love marketing and believe it or not, that wasn't even like a question we asked in the interview process when I first started the company because I was just trying to hire anybody with a pulse and that would be somebody I would be okay going to lunch to.
[00:34:43] Cris Rodriguez: Um, you know, I think in the beginning you hire generalists because it's all you can afford. And then as you start to scale, you want to start hiring, you know, more specialists. But, um, we basically use like a, a filtering system for hiring. It starts with your character. Um, you know, and, and I think there are companies that have core values like trust and integrity.
[00:35:04] Cris Rodriguez: And, and it's like, to me, those are pay to play values. Like that's what gets you a seat at the table. That's not a core value of a company. So do you have the, the character? Um, are you competent in the role? And, you know, what ended up happening is we were hiring, we hired a car mechanic to run ads, we hired a police officer to run ads and, you know, a year later, they're like, I hate sitting at a desk, staring at a computer, you know?
[00:35:27] Cris Rodriguez: So. Like we shifted our hiring process to hire people that, Hey, you actually like have to like marketing because we're going to be doing this long term. So, uh, you know, do you have the character? Are you competent? Are you committed, right? We want people that are going to be with us for a long season. Um, you know, not a, a short season.
[00:35:47] Cris Rodriguez: Um, are you a culture fit? Um, that is huge. So we are truly a company that hires, fires, reviews, recognizes, and rewards our people based off of our core values. They are not just words up on a wall. They are built into our quarterly conversations, which is like our performance, uh, reviews. Uh, when we, we do a weekly all hands on deck every Friday at 2 p.
[00:36:11] Cris Rodriguez: m. We do peer shout outs. You got to tie it into a core value. We literally printed core value baseball cards like little collectibles that you can earn if you are showcasing those values. And we, you know, always try to highlight those, um, you know, be behaviors. So that's kind of like the filtering mechanism that we use when we are looking to, you know, bring new hires on.
[00:36:34] Cris Rodriguez: And one year I dealt with 30 percent churn in my agency. It was probably the, the hard for employees. It was probably the hardest year for me. I, um, I think the hardest thing as a business owner to deal with is termination and losing employees. I personally feel, um, a sense of rejection when an employee quits.
[00:36:58] Cris Rodriguez: It's not an easy thing for me to deal with. And the reason why we saw that churn is because we didn't have our hiring process dialed in. We were hiring people that. Man, they really just wanted to work from home five days a week. They didn't want to come into the office. Like, well, you know, that's our model.
[00:37:14] Cris Rodriguez: You have to come into the office. So we really spent a lot of time shifting the focus from the customer journey, which was always front and center, and we'll always be front and center to now what is the employee journey? How are we, you know, letting people become aware that we're hiring? What are we doing to make them consider?
[00:37:33] Cris Rodriguez: You know, a career with us versus somebody else. What does the hiring process look like when they first come on? Uh, what is the onboarding look like? What is the retention look like? And ultimately, how do we turn them into advocates of our company so that it starts the cycle again and more people gain awareness of, about our company.
[00:37:52] Cris Rodriguez: I feel like it's harder in an in person model than a virtual model dealing with employee churn, because it's like, Oh, the guy that I used to go to lunch with every single day that sits next to me is no longer here. And employee morale can plummet. And if that happens, that makes everything else more difficult in terms of gaining new clients and retaining those clients.
[00:38:12] Cris Rodriguez: So we really spent a lot of time and energy and effort into how can we make this, you know, a, a, a career journey, an employee journey, uh, where, where people like are begging to work here. And I, I feel like it's a, a code that we recently cracked.
[00:38:29] Corey Quinn: Well, it sounds like you've turned that 30 percent churn employee churn into something that, you know, a real asset for the longevity of your business.
[00:38:37] Corey Quinn: I love hearing that. Yeah.
[00:38:38] Cris Rodriguez: I mean, we're under 5 percent this year alone, so that's a nice, huge improvement.
[00:38:42] Corey Quinn: I had the fortune of actually holding a Disney pen right here, but. I was fortunate a couple of years ago to go to, um, with the company I was with, I was on the leadership team and we went to Disney.
[00:38:52] Corey Quinn: Disney has a leadership program, uh, and, uh, have you, have you been, have you seen this?
[00:38:58] Cris Rodriguez: I haven't been, but I've heard about it.
[00:38:59] Corey Quinn: Yeah. It's fantastic. And one of the things that we learned, the thing that always stuck with me that was sort of one of the principles that, that Disney. Um, at least their leadership program really drove home was that the extent to which the employees love the brand and love the company is the extent to which your customers will love working with you.
[00:39:20] Corey Quinn: Right? So it's really the center of the bullseye is the employees first. Customers come after the employees for their model. And I love that.
[00:39:28] Cris Rodriguez: A hundred percent agree.
[00:39:29] Corey Quinn: When it comes to your, your service, uh, do you productize your service? Do you, you provide like a real sort of, you know, a couple of different packages or how do you, how does that come through in your sales process?
[00:39:41] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, we call them programs just because that's language that martial arts school owners, uh, can recognize. Um, so we do, we have a standalone program. We have a PPC program and then we have a pay per click authority program. And then we have an online dominance complete program. So those are our three main programs, but we also offer add ons.
[00:40:00] Cris Rodriguez: Um, so we built a call center. We call it our concierge agent program. Um, and that's where we actually follow up with the leads, book the leads. And these are all again, us based callers. Um, so we have, you know, Google business profile optimization. Uh, one of my mentors always told me life is better with options and I agree.
[00:40:20] Cris Rodriguez: Life is better with options. So we have these three core programs that we, uh, on our discovery call, which we offer a high performance marketing audit. So the first 15 minutes getting to know the school owner. Kind of 30 minutes is an audit of their online presence. And we're trying to provide value, make it educational.
[00:40:39] Cris Rodriguez: So even if they don't sign on with us. They have a couple of things that they can go employ into their school. And then the last kind of 15 minutes is us going over these programs and what we recommend them to choose based off of the information they provided us in terms of how many students, how many employees, what's your revenue at, what's your marketing budget at.
[00:41:00] Cris Rodriguez: So we have those three core programs and then we do have the add ons as well because life is better with options.
[00:41:07] Corey Quinn: Sure. And so part of the sales process, as you mentioned, last 15 minutes, you go through, we have these three packages. We recommend the PPC package based on everything you share with us, the audit.
[00:41:16] Corey Quinn: This is pointing us to, this is our strong recommendation. Yeah,
[00:41:21] Cris Rodriguez: and you know, we work with schools that haven't even opened their doors yet. They're getting ready for a grand opening. We work with school that have 50 students, 250 students, 500 students. We have one school owner that owns 15 locations and, you know, based off of where they are at in their entrepreneurial journey, their needs are going to be different and we want to be able to service the person with 50, you know, students, but we also want to be able to service the person with 500 students.
[00:41:47] Corey Quinn: So you have limited your business based on one industry, uh, one vertical market, which some business owners would say, that's risky. Gosh, what happens if, you know, we have another, you know, heaven forbid, another pandemic hit, hit us and people are not able to go into studios, like. How do you, how do you perceive that risk and how do you manage that risk as a business owner?
[00:42:11] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah, I have surrounded myself with some really, really smart people. And I truly believe that anything that gets thrown my way through my network of peers and mentors, I'll be able to overcome it and I'll come out. On the other end, even stronger, um, we got through a pandemic. We could get through another one.
[00:42:30] Cris Rodriguez: Uh, you know, not hoping that it, it happens because there were days I was crying in a corner. Um, but we eventually do want to look into other vertical niches, but one of my big entrepreneurial lessons that I've had to learn over and over again is chase two rabbits, catch none. I used to, you know, like brag that I was a serial entrepreneur and look at all of these companies that I own.
[00:42:59] Cris Rodriguez: And I had this aha moment at a mastermind. I was sitting at a round table and we're doing hot seats and I'm looking, and these are all multiple seven figure agency owners, and. Most of them are twice my age, and they have business partners, so I don't have a business partner. I've only been in the agency game for five years, and I'm sitting at this table, and I'm like, Wait a minute.
[00:43:21] Cris Rodriguez: My agency is doing just as much as theirs, if not more. I've been in this game for a fraction of the time, and I don't have a business partner. And it was like this lightbulb going off of the opportunity cost that trying to run all of these other businesses Was, was, was costing me and it was like, where would I be if this was the only focus, it was the only thing that I went in on.
[00:43:46] Cris Rodriguez: So I used to own a consulting company, got rid of that, used to own the martial arts school, sold that. Um, I do, um, invest in commercial properties. So I do have tenants. I'm not getting rid of those because that's a long term investment strategy, but I have literally been trying to. You know, uh, just focus on this one thing and, and this is the first year that I've really been able to do it, which man, is it a lot less stressful?
[00:44:13] Cris Rodriguez: Uh, it is a lot more profitable as well. And, uh, you know, that was just a, a really kind of hard lesson for me. Um, as an entrepreneur is, uh, you know, let's just focus on this one thing. I do believe I can get grow pro to a 5 million agency. So we're almost at 4 million. Um, I do believe to get to 10 million, other verticals are going to be a necessity.
[00:44:39] Cris Rodriguez: I'm not really interested in building them from scratch. I would much rather acquire them. So we are now in kind of the learning phase and educational phase. I've had two failed, um, you know, almost got to the LOI and then they kind of backed out. So. I'm kind of learning these processes. Maybe I came on a little too strong is what I kind of learned in that process, but I'm, I'm, I'm mainly looking to do it through acquisition versus starting from scratch.
[00:45:08] Cris Rodriguez: And we'd really love to be in similar verticals, dance, cheerleading, um, you know, those local businesses that are servicing, you know, families. Um, but I'm, you know, not against going in a completely other direction either. Um, but you know, deals are not something you can just snap your fingers and they pop up in the air.
[00:45:29] Cris Rodriguez: So that's really where I see us really being able to grow is through acquisition. And I think it's going to be a necessity going into other verticals to get us to eight figures.
[00:45:39] Corey Quinn: My background is, uh, I started off at an agency. We were doing just attorneys and we're doing about, uh, 20 million in just attorneys, which was bonkers.
[00:45:51] Corey Quinn: We decided to go into, yeah, we decided to go into home services cause we too wanted to, to expand into, um, new verticals, take, take advantage of all the assets and the programs we had built. And we went into home services and the thinking at the time was it worked out for us, but was what are other. Um, locally focused service businesses that rely on Google search for new leads.
[00:46:16] Corey Quinn: Like what, what, what businesses kind of look like attorneys, but are not attorneys. And we, we, we came to, um, home services due in part to the fact that they, they have a big ad spend, uh, but other reasons as well. Uh, we learned along the way that home service business owners and attorneys are very different people.
[00:46:37] Corey Quinn: They want to be treated much differently. They talk differently. They obviously they have. Much different ecosystems as businesses, but that ended up being, um, strong for us. We got into medical for a little bit. We backed out of that. We went into franchise multi location focused businesses. So instead of a single location business, you know, franchises, uh, grew, we grew up to 150 million, uh, actually 200 million after about six years, um, a lot of crazy highs and lows and everything else, but, um.
[00:47:07] Corey Quinn: So I, I'm familiar with your, um, with, with the direction of growth that you want. And I think acquisition for us, at least when we did it, it made a lot of sense. Doing an acquisition well is really hard, um, or it doesn't have to be, but I think we did it the hard way. So that's exciting, um, to hear that.
[00:47:24] Corey Quinn: Reflecting on, you know, your journey as an agency owner and. Having taken a verticalized approach, have there been any negatives, um, besides obviously the sort of the market risk, are there other negatives to taking a vertical approach as a, as an agency owner?
[00:47:39] Cris Rodriguez: The, the low ticket, high client volume make sales and marketing very easy.
[00:47:46] Cris Rodriguez: But it makes fulfillment much more difficult, right? There are agencies in the mastermind I'm in that's at the same revenue and they have 80 clients and we have 500 clients, right? There's just a lot more moving pieces to it. Um, it also. You know, lower ticket prices attract, you know, sometimes a certain type of, of person.
[00:48:10] Cris Rodriguez: Um, so I'm always curious to like, man, what would it be like working with lawyers, right? That in my mind are maybe more professionalized, but not always, right? I mean, every industry has their core group of people that, you know, are, are in it for the passion and not necessarily cause they want to learn the, the business practices and things like that.
[00:48:29] Cris Rodriguez: Um. You know, some feedback we've gotten from team members, uh, especially ones that have been on the team for a few years is they're very chomping at the bit for us to get into other verticals because it's like, how many more freaking Facebook ads can I write for a martial arts school? Like, how many more Canva graphics can we make, you know?
[00:48:48] Cris Rodriguez: And I think they're just looking for that new challenge for them. So they want us to do it. It's something that, you know, they are on board for as well. Um, but at the end of the day, I mean, you know, I, I didn't choose this market because. You know, I, it's funny because when I first read Josh Nelson's book, the seven figure agency roadmap, first chapter says, pick an industry that on average, the business is doing a million dollars a year.
[00:49:13] Cris Rodriguez: Like there's maybe 1%, maybe 2 percent of martial arts schools that are doing a million dollars a year. And if they are, it's simply because they have multiple locations. Right. So. Uh, you know, we, I knew we were fighting an uphill battle, but you know, I, I chose, you know, I, I chose it cause it made the most sense for me.
[00:49:32] Cris Rodriguez: And I, I do think that my history has played a large role into the success of, you know, the, the company.
[00:49:40] Corey Quinn: Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Um, two last questions for you, Chris. Um, first one is what advice would you give to other agency founders who are looking to specialize in a vertical market? Maybe they haven't committed, but they're thinking about it.
[00:49:53] Corey Quinn: What advice would you give them?
[00:49:54] Cris Rodriguez: I think you need to pick a market that you somewhat like. I mean, I see this a lot when I'm coaching agency owners. Like they just don't like the market that they chose. So. Do you need to like, if you want to go into HVAC, do you need to have worked at an HVAC company? No, but like, do you enjoy that vertical?
[00:50:15] Cris Rodriguez: Like you're going to have to be spending a lot of time with these people. You're going to have to go to the trade shows. You're going to have to be speaking at their events. So I do think you should choose something that you are somewhat interested in. I don't think it has to be like. All in passion for, you know, pest control.
[00:50:32] Cris Rodriguez: But like, if you're going to choose pest control, I don't know, maybe like something about bugs. I don't know. I just think it's, you know, kind of, kind of interesting how people choose that market. I do think looking at a market that. Um, you know, and I think this is why you see home services so popular, because it's recession proof.
[00:50:49] Cris Rodriguez: Like, no matter what happens, if my toilet breaks, it's gotta get fixed. I live in Florida, if the air conditioning breaks, it's gotta get fixed. If my roof needs to be repaired, I'm gonna have to repair my roof or I'm not gonna be able to get insured. You know, so I, I do think that, um, if you're maybe more risk adverse looking at those types of industries, but, um, you know, I think what a lot of people have a tendency to do is like, Oh, that's a red ocean.
[00:51:14] Cris Rodriguez: There's already so many people in that industry. And it's like, well, that's a good sign. It means that there's plenty of business in the industry. So not necessarily a complete negative.
[00:51:25] Corey Quinn: Viable. Right, exactly. Cool. Last question, Chris, what's your motivation?
[00:51:30] Cris Rodriguez: Man, that's a really good question. I think there's a couple of different ways that I could take this.
[00:51:37] Cris Rodriguez: I heard this like Ed Milette quote a while back where he said like, uh, you know, on your last day on this planet, you're going to meet the person that you could have been. And the goal is that there aren't any. Stark differences of who you could have been. Um, my motivation is just every day, just to try to get a little bit better in, in all areas of life, not just as a leader and an agency owner, but.
[00:52:01] Cris Rodriguez: In my health, in my education, in my relationships with my family, with my wife, with my son, with, you know, my friends, and I truly believe that happiness comes when we are progressing in life, like, I know that I've always felt my happiest in life when I felt like I was progressing, and it doesn't need to be some 50%, you know, progress, just 1%.
[00:52:23] Cris Rodriguez: Um, that really helps to keep me motivated. I do have a young son, And, um, my, my hope is that he wants to follow the entrepreneurial, uh, journey, but I also have two older step sons that didn't follow that. So I know it's, you know, like, it's always like that nature versus nurture thing, like you're hoping that like you can nurture them into that direction.
[00:52:45] Cris Rodriguez: Um, my step son does work here at the agency. So it is, you know, it does feel like a family owned business, but, um. I just want to provide, you know, for my family, a better life than I had. And I had a really great life because my parents did a really great job as well. And really the motivation in, in terms of like specific to the agency, I said this earlier.
[00:53:07] Cris Rodriguez: It's, um, you know, I'm an, I'm, I feel really grateful to have worked as hard as I have to be in the position that I'm in. And it's more about giving back to the people, um, you know, that are helping me run this company. One of the things that we just implemented are team member growth guides. So when somebody first comes on, asking them, where do you want to be one years from now, three years from now, five years from now?
[00:53:31] Cris Rodriguez: How can we support that? We're not just asking professional goals, we're asking personal goals as well. So we know, and it's interesting because for a lot of people, that's a very difficult question to answer, because they haven't really, you know, thought about it. Yeah, so helping them get out of their comfort zone to kind of dream bigger.
[00:53:49] Cris Rodriguez: And I always tell my team, work harder on yourself than you do your job. My favorite Jim Rohn quote ever. And, uh, you know, if, if they are developing personally, that's ultimately going to bleed in professionally. So. Yeah, just build this thing so damn big that I don't have to ever deal with resignations because I don't like that feeling.
[00:54:08] Cris Rodriguez: And that people want to, you know, be here forever because it's just a great culture and a great opportunity for them where they're going to see growth.
[00:54:17] Corey Quinn: That's absolutely amazing. Uh, I love all of this growing every day, challenging yourself to grow 1%, you know, giving back for your family, your team, leading through success, giving people an opportunity to level up.
[00:54:29] Corey Quinn: I love all of this. Really great. I'm motivated and I'm inspired by you, Chris. Thank you so much for coming on to the show and to sharing your story and all your wisdom. Where can people reach out to you to maybe, uh, follow some of your content and get connected?
[00:54:45] Cris Rodriguez: Yeah. Just follow me on Instagram. Chris C R I S L E L E E Rodriguez.
[00:54:51] Cris Rodriguez: Give me a follow. I'll give you a follow back.
[00:54:53] Corey Quinn: Beautiful, and that will be in the show notes. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining, Chris.
[00:54:58] Cris Rodriguez: Thanks for having me, Corey.
[00:55:00] Corey Quinn: Thanks for tuning in to the Deep Specialization Podcast. If you haven't checked out my bestselling book, anyone, not everyone, you can download the audiobook for free right now by going to anyone, not everyone.com.
[00:55:12] Corey Quinn: That's anyone, not everyone.com. And finally, a special thank you to our sponsor, E two M. We'll see you in the next episode.
