DeepSpecialization_Alex Strathdee_EP 80_Video_Edited_V1
===
[00:00:00] Corey Quinn: When we talk about specialization, there's a lot of ways you can specialize. There's two big sort of buckets of specialization. You can specialize in who you serve or you can specialize in what you do. And of course you've built your business around doing both. Today I'm joined by the founder of advanced Amazon ads, Alex Strathdee.
[00:00:18] Corey Quinn: Welcome Alex.
[00:00:19] Alex Strathdee: Corey, it's such a pleasure to be here with you. The fact that no one's focusing on this problem, I thought that's where my decision was made. most valued and so far it's been proven, right? It's healthy for us to be turning people away. Like we want to be turning people away because it shows the people who are coming through a really high quality.
[00:00:34] Alex Strathdee: We want to change the industry where a lot of the book marketing agencies and everyone out there, they offer the service, but they don't offer the result or the outcome. It is my goal to then our next stage is offering is we're selling the result.
[00:00:47] Corey Quinn: Welcome to the deep specialization podcast. The show where we blend focus strategy and client intimacy in order to scale and simplify our businesses and our lives.
[00:00:56] Corey Quinn: I'm your host, Corey Quinn. Let's jump into the show. Today, I'm joined by the founder of Advanced Amazon Ads, Alex Strathdee. Welcome, Alex.
[00:01:06] Alex Strathdee: Corey, it's such a pleasure to be here with you.
[00:01:09] Corey Quinn: Thank you so much for coming on. I was looking forward to our conversation, a little bit of context for the audience. You know, your business, you help authors to get new readers, primarily through Amazon ads.
[00:01:22] Corey Quinn: You've worked with some amazing authors, including some of my favorite authors, like Mike Michalowicz, Dan Sullivan, Mark Ronson. Michael Bungay Stanye, I think that's how you pronounce it, and you manage quite a big ad spending about 4 million in media spend in your work in helping support authors to get more readers.
[00:01:41] Corey Quinn: So super excited to bring you on. I'm, I'm, I'm interested both in your sort of your business journey, as well as I'd love to tap into some of your expertise around helping authors to Expand their influence and their reach by using books. So
[00:01:57] Alex Strathdee: you got it. Yeah. I'm happy to be here. And I was just listening to an episode with you and Christiana before this.
[00:02:02] Alex Strathdee: Oh yeah. Rhino agency. And man, I, you, your podcast is so actionable and insightful. So I appreciate you, the good work that you do.
[00:02:11] Corey Quinn: Beautiful, beautiful. Well, you are the real deal. So let's jump into it. So could you, just for context, for listeners, just share a little bit about the work you do, the agency you run and who you serve.
[00:02:23] Alex Strathdee: Yeah, absolutely. So we're advanced Amazon ads, which I don't know when this episode will be coming out, but we're actually rebranding in the new year to be shelf life, to be more encompassing of the services that we provide, but we are essentially a very focused agency focused on helping nonfiction authors get real books into the hands of real people.
[00:02:42] Alex Strathdee: So that is the work that we do. And any way that books move today and, you know, however people find books is what we want to be on top of, making sure that our authors can get in front of readers.
[00:02:55] Corey Quinn: So you mentioned it. This is news to me that you guys are rebranding to Shelf Life. My assumption is that because part of that is probably because you're expanding beyond specifically Amazon ads and moving more into focusing on multiple channels to help drive that outcome.
[00:03:12] Alex Strathdee: The type of person that we work with does not change at all. It's always been non fictional authors. It'll always be non fictional authors. You know, we get a lot of fictional authors that we have to turn away. And, uh, and it's funny enough, send to our competitors that they at least have something that they can, uh, you know, something so way that they can get ads run, but yeah.
[00:03:28] Alex Strathdee: So we, you know, we want to make sure that we're on top of Amazon ads have worked great and, you know, they, they're definitely effective and moving copies for the cheapest amount of ad spend, but there's a lot And ways to get readers. And so we want to be able to, it's like right now we're able to, you know, going back to the, I know you had, uh, Cristiano, the, the, the home contracting and stuff, you know, it's kind of like right now we're trying to build a house with just a hammer and it's like, we can be the hammer for our clients, but we can't be the wrench, we can't be, you know, all the other, the nails that go into a house and we want to be able to build the whole house for our clients.
[00:04:02] Alex Strathdee: So.
[00:04:04] Corey Quinn: So it is super interesting, I think, relevant for the work that I do and the things we talk about on this podcast, which is you have specialized, right? And I do want to get into the story that led you to where you are. I think it's a great story, but now since we're on it, I'll, I'll love to dig in a little bit deeper because when we talk about specialization, there's a lot of ways you can specialize, but there's two big, sort of big, Buckets of specialization.
[00:04:29] Corey Quinn: You can specialize in who you serve or you can specialize in what you do. And of course you've built your business around doing both, right? You've, as you mentioned, you service nonfiction authors, helping them at least historically doing Amazon ads. So you specialized in who you serve and what you do.
[00:04:49] Corey Quinn: And it sounds like if, again, if I'm reading between the lines, you're, you're expanding the, what you do, but you're continuing to stay focused in on that specialization on the nonfiction author.
[00:05:00] Alex Strathdee: Correct. Yeah. I always joke with the authors that we're talking to that we're a niche within a niche and now we'll still be, you know, a niche within a niche, but we just won't be a niche within a niche within a niche.
[00:05:10] Alex Strathdee: So we're just expanding what we can do for our clients. Sure.
[00:05:14] Corey Quinn: Sure. Well, I mean, I'd be curious to understand what's, what were some of those things in addition to Amazon ads that you see really work for authors?
[00:05:21] Alex Strathdee: Yeah, we're lucky enough now, you know, part of this has just come from the list of clientele that we work with and what they do for their books.
[00:05:28] Alex Strathdee: So, you know, we're lucky enough where we try to build strong relationships with all the authors that we work with. And, you know, there's some of them, one, for example, Joseph, No, and he's the author of the bestselling book right now. Don't believe everything you think it's been on the Amazon charts for like 25 weeks.
[00:05:41] Alex Strathdee: I think it just fell off this week though, sadly, but it looks like it might hop back on here pretty shortly. And with that author, he is come to us and, you know, he's been very thankful for the work we've done. We've done with the Amazon ads. We're going on working with him for over a year now, and. But, you know, it's, it's good now where I get to ask him, Hey, what else is working for you?
[00:05:58] Alex Strathdee: You know, how else are you able to, to move copies of your books? Because, you know, obviously everything you're doing off of Amazon is definitely helping us get sales on Amazon. So, you know, when we have other authors who come to us and say, you know, what else can I be doing besides just Amazon ads? You know, we didn't really have a great answer, or at least we didn't have a great, you know, another product for them to, to be able to, to meet them at that next level.
[00:06:19] Alex Strathdee: So working with our top authors right now to figure out what's working today to move books is how we're building out these new services, which include everything from TikTok shop to, uh, which is actually the first major disruption in book sales in a while, uh, compared to Amazon. So that's really, really something to look out for in the coming months and years is how they play into book sales.
[00:06:39] Alex Strathdee: Uh, and then. Uh, on top of that influencer programs, you know, we actually used to, to get where we are. At one point, about two years ago, we actually did start offering podcast booking, but my team was too small. And I found myself just, you know, it was kind of, you know, the, the age old saying, he chases two rabbits catches neither.
[00:06:58] Alex Strathdee: And so, you know, we niched back down. That was a mistake I made early on and learned that, you know, we had a great podcast booking service, which was still better than, you know, most out there, but I just knew I didn't have the time and attention to make it, as fantastic as it could be. And so we dialed back down just to really focus on making sure that we are the best in the world at Amazon ads for non fiction authors.
[00:07:19] Alex Strathdee: And now that we've gotten there, I believe, you know, we, we work towards that every single day. You know, we've got a great team, you know, I no longer am the smartest person on my team when it comes to Amazon ads, which I love saying. And so now I get to kind of focus on, on other areas of the business. So that's where a lot of authors are now having good luck is influencer programs, TikTok, you know, the, those, those types of things.
[00:07:39] Corey Quinn: So I want to get deeper into all of that. But first I'd love to take a couple of steps back and just understand your journey. I'm familiar with your background and your journey, but just for the listening audience, you know, you are effectively an agency owner. You may or may not think of yourself in that context, but you're providing professional services, a very specific type of services to a specific audience.
[00:07:58] Corey Quinn: How, what, what were the things or the sort of the milestones in your, in your life that led you to where you are today as it relates to this business?
[00:08:06] Alex Strathdee: Yeah, no, I absolutely think of us as an agency, you know, there's different paths we could have taken the business at different times and an agency is definitely, uh, where we've, we've gone with it.
[00:08:14] Alex Strathdee: And, uh, that came about because I graduated, uh, 2018, go Hokies. And was living supposedly the dream. I was making, you know, six figures, first job out of college, doing, you know, uh, software sales for a tech company. And, uh, realized that that could have been the rest of my life. And that just didn't sound interesting enough.
[00:08:35] Alex Strathdee: Uh, I didn't, you know, I don't, I didn't think I was really using my unique talents to, to better the world how I could. So my mom works for American Airlines. Uh, and so I got to quit my job. Go spend, uh, I used up about 30, 000 worth of free flights on her benefits and traveled the world and on the side started delving into book marketing.
[00:08:53] Alex Strathdee: And, you know, I can talk a little bit more about that. It actually came, a friend of mine and I released a book when we graduated based on a somewhat successful podcast we had in college, and it's called, And that's how I learned about books and book marketing, realized how much actually goes into it and sold the landscape and just thought, wow, there's, there's a lot of things that, you know, that authors can buy that don't actually do what they want it to do, which is get real books in the hands of real people.
[00:09:16] Alex Strathdee: And so that was kind of my mission was, well, the fact that no one's focusing on this problem, you know, I thought that's where my, my skill sets would be most valued and, uh, so far it's been proven, right.
[00:09:29] Corey Quinn: So you, you and I share a couple of things based on that. I was in a track of going down the finance road and I had a great job at, at UBS and here in Los Angeles downtown looking at, I could see the building I used to work at in downtown from here.
[00:09:44] Alex Strathdee: That's fun. And
[00:09:45] Corey Quinn: it was, uh, I got somehow, some way I got invited to join in. Ultra high net worth private wealth management group, right? This guy who ran the group managed money for all the big directors and producers and ball players. All I had to do is keep my nose down and just work really hard every day.
[00:10:02] Corey Quinn: And eventually, you know, I said to myself, I could probably inherit this business at one point, right? Inherit the book of business. And of course I realized that Envisioning that future wasn't the future that I wanted to pursue for my life. And so I went a different path. I went back to school, got an MBA and whatnot.
[00:10:20] Corey Quinn: That's the first piece that I wanted to share. That sounds like there was some similarities there as far as for sure. Yeah. And then the other one was my stepmom is a flight attendant or was a flight attendant with American airlines as well. And so I did something very similar where I got to fly on all the D three passes all over the world.
[00:10:41] Alex Strathdee: Oh, that's great. No, I wonder, you know, going back to the, you know, having a good life set up, you know, I do wonder all the time, you know, I have a friend here in San Diego who tells me about, you know, he's, he knows he's got more to offer. He's in the cushy job. He works like 20 hours a week as a manager.
[00:10:57] Alex Strathdee: And he's just able to be on autopilot and, you know, he just kind of seems a little dead inside. And, you know, I, I always wonder, you know, it's like, we can't make people take that jump that we've taken, but I do wonder why we, you know, and anyone who's listening to this podcast is, you know, obviously, you know, agency owner, you know, someone who's following, you know, some sort of a dream or a passion or running away from some pain.
[00:11:18] Alex Strathdee: You know, it's, it's always interesting, you know, what, what is the, when it comes down to it, what's the difference that. You know why some people jump and some people don't, I don't, I don't have an answer to that, Corey. So, yeah,
[00:11:28] Corey Quinn: I think we all have, uh, we all have our own path. I can speak for myself that I find myself the most alive when I'm doing things that truly challenged me at the core and I, and I'm forced to, you know, grow and change.
[00:11:41] Corey Quinn: I, had the benefit of being exposed to people like Tony Robbins at an early age. And so I, was turned on to this idea of self improvement and I think, you know, Our businesses as business owners are just a reflection of who we are today or maybe who we were six months ago. So it's a great, it's a great self development tool, I think, in some strange regards.
[00:12:00] Alex Strathdee: Totally. I have to keep reminding myself that if I'm not growing, it means the people under me can't grow. You know, it's like the people I have on my team now, which are absolutely exceptional. You know, it's my, I actually work harder now for them than I did for myself. That's kind of an amazing experience too, as an agency owner is, is having employees who now rely on you for their own career growth and their own income rises.
[00:12:21] Alex Strathdee: You know, that's, that's what gets me up in the morning these days, which, you know, brings me joy and satisfaction.
[00:12:26] Corey Quinn: I've heard the saying that people don't leave leaders, they leave, I guess, how do they say it? It's more around that people will leave you when they run out of future with you. As their leader, if they don't, if they don't, if they, if they can't see them, their future being fulfilled within your bigger vision of the company, that's when they start looking elsewhere.
[00:12:44] Alex Strathdee: That's well said.
[00:12:45] Corey Quinn: Yeah. So you. Rewinding back to after you graduated, I know you, you and your coauthor wrote a book and you got, were exposed to this world. And then, so is it, was it fair to say that you're, you were your first client in regards to promoting this book and finding a way to get more exposure for it?
[00:13:02] Corey Quinn: Or how did that, how did you go from an author to an agency owner?
[00:13:07] Alex Strathdee: Essentially, yeah, the first person I did Amazon ads for was for myself because, you know, we hired a consultant and, you know, I, I don't think there was anything wrong about, you know, getting the Amazon bestseller title, you know, whatever the titles are, as long as you know that that doesn't actually mean sales because you can have
[00:13:24] Corey Quinn: a hard way.
[00:13:24] Corey Quinn: I, I published my book in April of this year and I, you know, I, I made the, for, you know, the, The Amazon bestseller. And, um, yeah, it's, it doesn't guarantee, you know, a home run by any stretch.
[00:13:37] Alex Strathdee: You can be in the right category, have 10 people buy your book in the same day and you're an Amazon bestseller. And the next day your sales will drop to zero.
[00:13:45] Alex Strathdee: It doesn't becoming an Amazon bestseller is, is, you know, but I, you know, when you're using it to like get conversations, like we ended up doing some grassroots marketing, which is a whole different story, but, you know, we reached out to. You know, every university across the country and said, Hey, we have this Amazon bestselling book.
[00:14:00] Alex Strathdee: Do you want it for your students? Right. And you know, it's the part that it was an Amazon bestseller that oftentimes got their attention. And so, although it didn't lead to any additional sales, just having that badge was useful. So, you know, having that title, as long as you're going to use it. But I think, you know, where, where it gets a little scammy is when people don't know what they're actually signing up for.
[00:14:17] Alex Strathdee: They, they think they're signing up for the book to become a bestseller. When, when they're not. Really? It's like a couple of email lists that move, you know, some copies and get you, and you can be in, you know, Amazon has 20, 000 categories on Amazon. And as long as you're in, you know, one of those obscure categories like keyboarding and you sell 20 copies, you can be an Amazon bestseller.
[00:14:32] Alex Strathdee: That's
[00:14:32] Corey Quinn: it. That's kind of the, the, the, the unspoken secret about, about that little quote unquote hack. So there's not that obviously people who know about that. Know that there's not much value in that, inherent value in that bestseller status. That said, I think it's still to your point, it is, it's something to go get in addition to many other things.
[00:14:52] Alex Strathdee: If you use it the right way, I mean, any of these lists are, are buyable. You know, I, I, we, uh, I know someone who sells, you know, you can get on the, we'll pay enough money and you can get on the wall street journalist. You can get on the, the New York times list. All of these have a price tag. So,
[00:15:07] Corey Quinn: okay, that's,
[00:15:09] Alex Strathdee: that's something we could dive into another time.
[00:15:13] Corey Quinn: So, okay, so you, you had your book, you, you figured out, okay, we want to get more, more exposure, more, more, more downloads or more purchases of the book in addition to the work you did. I know it's the universities, which I think is super fascinating, but how did you go from buying ads and kind of figuring it out on your own dime for your own book to bring on your first client?
[00:15:35] Corey Quinn: Like what was that bridge?
[00:15:37] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. So, you know, I was lucky where I had, when I went to go traveling, I wanted to kind of still make some, make sure that I was at least breaking even on what I was spending during this time of discovery. And so, you know, the lady who actually helped us publish our books and, you know, make us Amazon bestsellers, you know, reached out to them and said, Hey, do you need a virtual assistant?
[00:15:55] Alex Strathdee: You know, I can come in and help out with what you're doing, which, you know, she would help them, you know, Take their manuscript, get it edited, put it into book form. And so, and then part of it, you know, she would do these Amazon bestsellers and I was bestseller programs and I, you know, I was looking at it and, you know, it's kind of like, you know, I was, I was new to the industry and, you know, I just, over time realized, wait a second, like, I don't think this is where really the value is.
[00:16:18] Alex Strathdee: And so, you know, she had, she'd set up some basic Amazon ads for her, for her clients, and then no one was there to manage them longterm. And so I said, Hey, how about, you know, when you're, Done with their book launch and everything, you send them to me and I'll, I'll get their Amazon ads working much better, which I, you know, I was learning, you know, through doing it myself in my own book at that time.
[00:16:38] Alex Strathdee: And so I just started taking on like first two or three people. I charged people like 50 bucks a month at the time. And you know, it was traveling the world. I remember just, you know, sitting at a, an Airbnb in Indonesia, you know, really slow internet, just like putting in people's search terms, you know, for it.
[00:16:53] Alex Strathdee: And, um,
[00:16:54] Corey Quinn: Yeah.
[00:16:55] Alex Strathdee: And that was, uh, and then just, you know, we were really lucky where just not a lot of people knew how to do Amazon ads really, really well and still don't. And you know, like I said, I'm not even the expert on my team at Amazon ads anymore. That's Laura Russell, who's, uh, who's our chief marketing scientist on our, on our team.
[00:17:11] Alex Strathdee: And she's absolutely fantastic along with Tammy, our, our PPC manager. But um, Yeah. I mean, it was just, uh, at first just, you know, finding, and I was actually listening, you know, and listening to your, your other podcast, he talked a little bit about how he ran into trouble because all of his, you know, a lot of his prospects were coming from this one manufacturer and I actually ran into the same issue where I had all of my leads were pretty much coming from this one person and that relationship did end up going south at one point, uh, to some degree.
[00:17:37] Alex Strathdee: And I realized, you know, we lost like half of our incoming clients. And so, you know, it's been, It has been, you know, years, we've been around now for five years at the end of 2019, and it's been a big learning, learning experience and journey. And I'm happy to dive into any of the, you know, the little bits that, you know, it's really just examples of stuff you, you touch on on your podcast all the time, so
[00:17:55] Corey Quinn: I love it.
[00:17:56] Corey Quinn: And, and so I think there's going to be some, some percentage of our listeners today who are in a similar situation. They've gotten off the ground, maybe they're doing. You know, six figure businesses, you know, agency services, but they're relying either exclusively or mostly on one referral source. That sounds like that was you back, you know, back a couple of years ago.
[00:18:16] Corey Quinn: What, what were the steps that you took to begin to diversify those, those sources of new business?
[00:18:23] Alex Strathdee: So, you know, where I was going with that was, you know, I basically had to, to teach myself then like real marketing. Right. So like, I knew how to do PPC, but then it was like, Oh wait, like, okay, I guess we're becoming a company.
[00:18:35] Alex Strathdee: You know, what, what does a company need? And, you know, I remember there was actually, you know, and I tried some stuff. I, you know, started, I was like, okay. I'm going to go on every podcast I possibly can. And so, and made some really phenomenal relationships and they started sending us leads. I started my own podcast where I would interview authors and, you know, authors who I wanted to work with.
[00:18:54] Alex Strathdee: And, uh, obviously, you know, the bigger the names you get on them, that attracts bigger names and you know, all that. But, you know, in reaching out to these authors to come on the podcast, I'd then have, you know, an hour, hour and a half long conversation with them where they, you know, I build that relationship.
[00:19:07] Alex Strathdee: You know, not sell them at all, or even tell them what we do. And then at the end of that podcast call, they'd say, wait, what is it you do? And I'd be like, Amazon ads. And they're like, oh, well, I need help with my Amazon ads. I was like, cool. Let's, let's set up a time to talk about it. And so, you know, like that's how we ended up working with Gay Hendricks.
[00:19:21] Alex Strathdee: You know how, that's how we ended up working with Alan Dibb. You know, they all came on the podcast. We built that relationship. And then, you know, now we've been working with Alan for almost two years. We just helped him launch Lean Marketing. And, uh, And, you know, that's, that's been the journey. And so that changed a lot.
[00:19:34] Alex Strathdee: And then also we do a lot of, uh, outreach, you know, I think finding where your clients gather. And then, you know, which, you know, it's like such simple advice, but, you know, like really looking at, well, where's a bunch of authors that you can find a list of, Oh, wait. And we have an amazing team member. He's really good at finding pretty much anyone's email address.
[00:19:54] Alex Strathdee: And, you know, so, you know, that helps too. And we have some really good marketing copy that we send out that, you know, I, I remember the first time, so that's also, so the first step was the podcasting. And then, you know, the next part was, you know, I had, uh, I remember sending out this one, one email to a guy named Anthony, Anthony, Ian Mario, who's a, he's actually a tall, he just released a book with Jeb Blount and I shot him an email and he sent me an email back immediately and said, this is my first time trying this tactic.
[00:20:22] Alex Strathdee: And he just said, where have you been? And. I was just like, and then, and then, um, two minutes later, he sends me another email with his phone number and says, call me, I call him up and he buys right then and there, and so that was a big game changer as well, but I mean, to be able to grow, you know, being able to successfully prospect, you know, right now we get about 25 percent of our business from referrals, uh, which is always great.
[00:20:45] Alex Strathdee: And then, you know, of the rest is, uh, outbound, a lot of our outbound, which, um, honestly, email just works really, really well for.
[00:20:52] Corey Quinn: What you're speaking to and the success that you found, obviously it was a lot of work and probably, you know, a lot of starts and stops, but the, the success from, from my filters based on what you shared is you really benefited from being super clear about who you're serving, you know, and the, the nonfiction authors and the specific problem you solved in the platform and all that.
[00:21:12] Corey Quinn: And being able to communicate that in an email to someone like, you know, these, these amazing authors and they responding to you, Anthony.
[00:21:24] Corey Quinn: I have literally two of his books over there. I know exactly what you're talking about. Have him respond to that. I think there's that, that speaks to your, your ability to speak to a specific pain point when you're reaching out to a nonfiction author who is trying to sell more books for lack of a better term.
[00:21:43] Corey Quinn: Uh, you come in and you could say, you say, Hey, I'm an expert in solving that problem on this specific platform. You get these kinds of responses.
[00:21:51] Alex Strathdee: Yeah, and that's, I mean, that, that changed the business. And ever since then we, I mean, every, every, every year we've been in business now for five years, since the end of 2019, we've been able to double our revenue.
[00:22:00] Alex Strathdee: So, you know, we're, we're, we're growing fast.
[00:22:03] Corey Quinn: It's beautiful. And today you are, you're limited. Your, your referrals are only 25 percent of your business, which means that you're no, not over dependent on any one sort of individual thought leader. I'm thinking back as you were sharing that, how I came across you and it Because you were a guest on another sort of, book author kind of coach out there that was helping other people.
[00:22:27] Corey Quinn: And I was in the process of writing my book, my first book, nonfiction book. And so I learned about you and then I immediately went and I started listening to probably 20 or 25 of your episodes of your podcast, because I had to learn from you. Like you've had so much great information. I joined your email newsletter.
[00:22:43] Corey Quinn: So, and the
[00:22:44] Alex Strathdee: great information doesn't come from me. It comes from, you know, the, the, the guests we have on our show. There you go. I, I'm, we're, we're, I mean, that, and that it's also great when you have a podcast, you know, I always like, especially when you're a startup, you know, one of the tricks I use is like everything you do, that's going to take a lot of time and energy should have at least two or three reasons why it's going to work.
[00:23:01] Alex Strathdee: Right. And so for the podcast, it was one we're creating content. You know, for other channels Two we're potentially getting clients from those conversations. And then three, I'm actually learning about, you know, more about how to speak author or how, so, you know, like it was just a absolute win to have, you know to launch that podcast.
[00:23:20] Corey Quinn: Now that the world has kind of turned a little bit and you're, you're down the road, I'm sure that you're not the only agency that focuses on helping authors sell more books through Amazon. How do you differentiate in the market?
[00:23:32] Alex Strathdee: Yeah, so we differentiate by the level of care that we provide. You know, a lot of the, a lot of our competitors charge a fraction of what we charge, but they're located, you know, oftentimes and, you know, and there's nothing wrong with this, you know, by, by all means, you know, but like, you know, Pakistan or, you know, India or wherever.
[00:23:53] Alex Strathdee: You know, we are a team that's, you know, has full time employees in the U S that will pick up your phone, pick up the phone and have a conversation with you. And, you know, so it's just, uh, and we also buy the books of every single author we work with, you know, like even publishers, like it's, it's crazy, it's such a weird, you know, like a lot of these, you know, I have a whole shelf here behind me of some of our clients and, you know, You know, I have a whole wall in my, uh, my place here that is just our clients books.
[00:24:20] Alex Strathdee: And even friends who come over, they're like, Oh, what are these books? I'm like, these are all of our clients that we serve. Uh, which now is around, uh, you know, 90 to a hundred books. And so, you know, it's, it's, we actually even like, we actually have a copy of their book on hand that we're marketing. Who would have thought it's crazy, but it's such a small thing to separate ourselves.
[00:24:37] Alex Strathdee: And, um, you know, so it's, it's the care that we put in and then also Kaizen, you know, like I think something authors that have been working with us for years will realize, you know, we never raised prices for clients who have been with us and we know we'll never raise clients for, for, we'll never raise prices for clients that join us tomorrow.
[00:24:52] Alex Strathdee: It's just kind of a principle of ours, you know, for people who've been with us since, you know, since early on. And, you know, those people have only gotten better and better services, you know, more data on their reports, you know, more like weekly touch points if they'd like, you know, we, we have a link to grab time with us whenever they like.
[00:25:06] Alex Strathdee: So. You know, it's, it's, um, you know, we separate ourselves, you know, where we're one of the more expensive options in the market, but it's because we are actually focused on getting your results. We're not just trying to create an assembly line for authors that come through. Oh, and on top of that, we also have a full money back guarantee.
[00:25:22] Alex Strathdee: So, I mean, we, we are that confident in our, our, the work that we do with our authors, that You know, if an author isn't satisfied with us, all we have to do is say that and we'll completely refund them, which who else in the space does that? No one that I'm aware of.
[00:25:34] Corey Quinn: Hey, it's Corey. I wanted to take a quick break from the show to say that if you're an agency owner looking for a strategic and reliable white label partner, you should check out e2m they offer website design, WordPress development, eCommerce solutions.
[00:25:50] Corey Quinn: SEO, PPC, and content writing, and they are trusted by over 300 agencies. You can check out E2M's transparent and flexible pricing model at e2msolutions. com slash the deep specialization podcast for limited time. E2M is offering a special 20 percent discount for the deep specialization podcast listeners on your first month.
[00:26:13] Corey Quinn: Go check them out. Now back to the show,
[00:26:19] Corey Quinn: I would say there's, uh, there's a fourth one that you didn't mention because I think you're humble, which is that you have a great, great client roster, right? People, these authors that have a brand name out there, they have their choice of who they can work with. And obviously they're choosing you. That's, that's something that I, which I call it in my world.
[00:26:38] Corey Quinn: And I wrote about it in my book, which is to. Clothes deals with influential brands in your world, it's authors, right? And so it's the, if, if, if this person, this amazingly successful person is choosing you, then, then they're probably good enough for me too.
[00:26:54] Alex Strathdee: And when I'm, you know, for anyone who's listening, who's like, Oh, okay.
[00:26:57] Alex Strathdee: How can I act on that? You know, the way, the way we went about it is, and it was actually, You know, I guess it was kind of tongue in cheek, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a very competitive person and, you know, when things kind of fell out initially with the, with our person who was referring us a lot of traffic, you know, they, it was one of their favorite authors that I was like, I wonder if I could get this guy to be my client, that would be like a real, like, I'll show you like how valuable we are, you know?
[00:27:23] Alex Strathdee: And so I shot him an email and his name's Mike Michalowicz and had no idea Turns out he is not just from Virginia Tech, but he was also a member of the same business organization that I was a member of at Virginia Tech. And so it was immediately having, you know, finding that connection, which I found out once he came on the podcast and, you know, we've had a beautiful years long relationship since, you know, we helped him launch my, my money bunnies.
[00:27:47] Alex Strathdee: We recently helped him do a little bit of marketing, although it didn't work quite as well for get different and, uh, all in. And, um, yeah, I mean, he's, he's just, I have nothing but good things to say about Mike. He's just, he gives, he gives, he gives, but that, I mean, having Mike Michalowicz, you know, I, when I, whenever we have a new member, team member, who's onboarded, you know, we go through a timeline of, you know, where we've, where we've been to get where we are today, um, You know, there's a specific date on that timeline that says, you know, Mike Michalowicz becomes a client because, you know, saying we were working with Mike just attracted everyone.
[00:28:18] Corey Quinn: His book is, uh, above your right, right shoulder, right? Yeah, yeah. No, no
[00:28:21] Alex Strathdee: surprise. Of course, I have his book right above me. So
[00:28:25] Corey Quinn: good placement. I like that.
[00:28:26] Alex Strathdee: And we run, you know, give Mike a quick shout out. We run our finances through profit for, you know, the, the way to do things. So great
[00:28:33] Corey Quinn: book. Very good.
[00:28:34] Corey Quinn: Definitely. If you've not checked out profit first, definitely folks go check it out. So you're on the, you have this podcast. I love that you're using it as a way to build relationships, strategic relationships in the market. Have you ever gotten on a you as the host and you brought in a guest where you felt maybe there was a little bit of imposter syndrome or, you know, gosh, this person is, you know, they're, they're so huge and I'm just me.
[00:28:57] Corey Quinn: What has that ever happened to you?
[00:29:00] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. And, you know, this probably goes against some of your, you know, that you're, you're a bread and butter of specialization, but, you know, it's kind of like, well, let's get the biggest soldiers in the world. And so we ended up working with. This, uh, psychologist, amazing psychologist, Ruth Cohn, who's, you know, kind of pretty much retired now and has some books on Amazon.
[00:29:16] Alex Strathdee: And, you know, she brought, it was actually her marketing director. I forget how she found us. Maybe it was through a referral to someone else, but she reached out to us and was like, Hey, I have this client. Can you guys help me with them? So we joined on with them and then worked with them for, you know, we, we've been working with Ruth for like two, three years.
[00:29:30] Alex Strathdee: She was one of our, almost our first clients. And so I got to know this marketing director. It turns out this marketing director was also the director for, uh, Bessel, Uh, Vandercock, uh, author of the body keeps the score. Now I'm a digital marketing guy. I love therapy. I think therapy is great. I think everyone should go to therapy, but I am definitely not, you know, well versed in this, you know, uh, psychology sort of space, but you know, whatever, I'm all about shooting my shots.
[00:29:55] Alex Strathdee: So I sent her, I was like, Hey, can you get us in touch with this people? Maybe we can get Bessel on our podcast. Cause our podcast is all about, you know, how did, you know, we, we only have authors who, we who have moved 10, 000 plus copies of their books, you know, on the show. And so the whole point is, how did you move that many copies of your book?
[00:30:10] Alex Strathdee: And so, you know, sometimes though, when you get to these big authors like this, they don't even like, they're not the marketing people on their team. So it was an interesting conversation because we, we, you know, I, and I read the books of every author that we have on. So that way it's a more meaningful conversation.
[00:30:23] Alex Strathdee: I mean, the body keeps the score is not a small book. It's a thick book. And I remember, you know, we hopped on, on the call and, and, and, And, you know, I held up the book trying to show it, Hey, look, I have your book, you know, let's, let's talk about it. And Bessel goes, well, usually the people I interview have, you know, post it, sticking out the side of it and it's all torn up because they've read it so well.
[00:30:40] Alex Strathdee: And, you know, it just totally called me out for, you know, for, but it was still a good conversation. He was very nice coming on, but that's one example, but I mean, you know, you just gotta, you know, it's, it's a, have fun with it, mate. I mean, like it's, you
[00:30:53] Corey Quinn: can't, you fail forward, right? So yeah, you shoot your shot.
[00:30:56] Corey Quinn: Right. You do your best. And best
[00:30:57] Alex Strathdee: for those that don't know Bessel. I mean, his, his book is sold millions and millions of copies. Dan Pink was another one that I was intimidated by, but I'm telling a lot of stories. So I'll tell you about that one if you want to know, but I know we're already here. So Dan, yeah.
[00:31:12] Alex Strathdee: How did, I think we reached out to Dan Pink, like just for a cold emailing and, you know, he said, you know, like, Hey, yeah, not interested in your ads, which is fine. You know, that happens all the time. And then, you know, we, like, I, I just. I'm a fan of Dan Pink. I've read his books. And so, you know, I sent him fan mail to be honest, too.
[00:31:30] Alex Strathdee: And then, you know, he was releasing his, his, it was coming up on the release of his next book, which, you know, if you ever want to get in touch with a big author, you know, right before, you know, a few months out from the release of their next book, if you're aware of it, you know, it was a great time to reach out to them, you know, not right now.
[00:31:43] Alex Strathdee: You know, the couple of weeks before the launch, because that's when they're going to be probably spending their time on, on really, really, you know, unless you have a big podcast and that's great. That's, you know, that's a really good attraction to them. But if you were just starting out, you know, like we were, you know, Daniel Pink getting Daniel Pink, you know, we're, we're not, you know, we have like a hundred listeners maybe at that time.
[00:32:00] Alex Strathdee: And so he, I remember him coming on. And he was, he's very nice about it. Oh, yeah. So we emailed back and forth a while and he actually put us off like two or three times, and then finally we got a date nailed down and remember him showing up to it. And I mean, I had torn this because Dan Pink is actually one of my favorite authors.
[00:32:14] Alex Strathdee: I actually love him as an author. And, and so I was really excited for the meeting and I remember us getting on the, getting on the chat and he was looking at me like, okay, who is this, you know, bushy eyed, excited kid that I'm talking to. And, uh, you know, and we're, we got into it and I was asking different questions about the book.
[00:32:29] Alex Strathdee: And, you know, one of the things he mentioned was like, uh, I got to tell my, my assistant, he said in like a very nice way that like, I got to tell my assistant to like, make sure we're, we're using our time valuable, valuably on like big podcasts, you know? And I, I didn't, I was just happy he was there. So like, I had no issue with that, but you know, that was another time that I was definitely intimidated, but you know, and now, but now when I talked to, if we get like a big, some, you know, someone to come on, you know, we have a lot of, like, we had Kim Scott on the podcast.
[00:32:54] Alex Strathdee: Like, it doesn't make me nervous anymore because it's like, We've had these other big people.
[00:33:00] Corey Quinn: So, so yeah, they let one through the cracks. I love that. But now let me ask you, how did your, did having Daniel pink on your podcast, improve your listenership? Did that, did that just, well, yeah,
[00:33:10] Alex Strathdee: I mean, it's, it's the ability.
[00:33:11] Alex Strathdee: I mean, even when we do podcast outreach for me to get on podcasts now, it's like, Oh, this guy's interviewed Daniel. It means it's going to be a good conversation. Like we're not going to get on here and there's going to be like awkward, dead silence, like this guy's a professional. So yeah. You know, just showing that you've had these conversations with these big people just shows that like, you're competent enough to like this person to say, like, my time was, was worth talking, like spending with this person.
[00:33:33] Alex Strathdee: Right. So that's been helpful.
[00:33:34] Corey Quinn: So changing gears a little bit, do you, do you have a salesperson on the team or are you doing all the selling?
[00:33:39] Alex Strathdee: We do so, um, and it has, I mean, I know that's, that's like a big part of what you teach, you know, that is what has freed my time up immensely. I mean, I've gotten 20, 20 hours back per week.
[00:33:51] Alex Strathdee: You know, we, we, I love traction by Gina Wickman. It's kind of the system that we run our business by and, you know, they have their, their rocks, you know, the, the, the quarterly rocks. And, you know, we, we get more done now in a quarter because I finally. You know, for the past two, three months, um, you know, we're lucky enough.
[00:34:07] Alex Strathdee: We, you know, it's just, you're putting out good content. I was speaking somewhere and someone reached out to me like, Hey, I want to have a chat and the guy was Steve Sarner, who was the former VP of sales over at Goodreads and, you know, when they sold, they sold to Amazon, he came on and, you know, he was, he was done with, with, uh, done over there.
[00:34:21] Alex Strathdee: And so he was kind of looking for his next project. And, you know, he's, he's, he's an entrepreneur guy. So he likes to kind of like be like the number two. Number three person at different startups. And so, you know, he's part time he's doing sales for us. And then another startup that he's, he's also working with, but you know, they're totally in an unrelated field.
[00:34:37] Alex Strathdee: And, um, and the man just loves books. And so we are just so lucky to have like, you know, people will see his as your
[00:34:44] Corey Quinn: seller.
[00:34:46] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. It's like the former VP of sales at Goodreads is our, our sales guy. And, you know, he's our, we call him director of all for success, but I mean, he gets on and you know, he, he also, you know, before like I'm 28 and you know, Laura Rossum, you know, I won't, I don't think it's polite to say, you know, people's ages, but you know, she's, she's quite young as well.
[00:35:03] Alex Strathdee: And you know, we joke, it's like, we finally have an adult, you know, managing the kids on our team. So
[00:35:09] Corey Quinn: I have to ask what's his close rate.
[00:35:11] Alex Strathdee: I actually, I, uh, yeah, I should know that off the top of my head. I don't, I mean, we are really, we turn away a lot of authors because Yeah. You know, and meet certain criteria.
[00:35:21] Corey Quinn: Yeah.
[00:35:21] Alex Strathdee: Something that resonated. Uh, and that was actually when I posted, you know, I put a post on LinkedIn, you know, with a video of me talking about, hey, like, we need a salesperson, but like, here's very specifically what we need. And, um, you know, at first I tried to hire a COO, who I, you know, said, Hey, you're gonna do sales too.
[00:35:36] Alex Strathdee: Turns out they came on, they wanted to do, you know, the COO stuff and admin stuff, but they didn't want to sell. And it's like, Oh, that was, that was like a big part of this. So that didn't quite work out. But the, um, you know, uh, getting to, to Steve, you know, it was like, Hey, we're not looking for someone who's just trying to close everyone because that's going to lead to a really bad client experience.
[00:35:54] Alex Strathdee: If we bring on someone who we know we can't move copies of their book, Like, it's just, it's only going to go downhill. So Steve also, you know, the fact that he understands publishing as well. I mean, it just couldn't be a better fit, but yeah, I don't know what his close right is, but it's not even something that we really look at too much because of the fact that like we, it's a, it's healthy for us to be turning people away, like we want to be turning people away because, you know, that it shows the people who are coming through are really high quality.
[00:36:18] Alex Strathdee: So.
[00:36:19] Corey Quinn: So now with the, with the business, it sounds like you're expanding outside of Amazon ads. So you could theoretically improve the average sort of value per client, which means that you know, going into the market, maybe you shift a little bit what you're looking for. But in addition to that, you can go back to your current clients, which are, you know, getting great value, I'm sure.
[00:36:38] Corey Quinn: And you can, you can say, well, if we're doing this, what do you think about adding on this? Right. Is that kind of the approach? Yeah.
[00:36:43] Alex Strathdee: All right. We want to change the industry where a lot of the book marketing agencies and everyone out there, they're, they offer the service, but they don't, they don't offer the result or the outcome.
[00:36:53] Alex Strathdee: It is my goal to, you know, then our next stage is offering is we're selling the result. We're selling, Hey, do you want 5, 000 copies out into the hands of real people? That's what you're hiring us to do because, you know, that you can hire to get the Amazon bestseller status or whatever, but for a book to actually work or not, there's a lot of science behind, you know, there's different CEOs of different publishing companies that have said this.
[00:37:14] Alex Strathdee: The late Bill Gladstone, you know, of Waterside, you know, he's the, he was the literary agent, people like Eckhart Tolle, Bill or Jack Canfield, Amrita Kondo, all those people, you know, his whole thing is in order for a book to work commercially long term, it needs to, you need to get at least 20, 000 copies into the wild.
[00:37:29] Alex Strathdee: I think that's very aggressive. Uh, and people also don't realize how hard, freaking hard it is just to get that many copies. And also if your books for home builders, for example, uh, or your books, just for agencies, like to hit your goals for that book, you don't need to move 20, 000 copies, right? Cause there's not even, you know, I don't even know how many agency owners that are out there.
[00:37:44] Alex Strathdee: You probably do, but. You know, like you just need a certain percentage of the market, right? So we're going to be selling our, our packages based on, you know, based on seeding a market and getting books in the hands of real people who you're actually helping with. So that's where, you know, whether it's like you're hiring us to move 5, 000 copies, you're hiring us to get 10, 000 copies, you know, it's no longer like, Oh, you're hiring us to do PR.
[00:38:03] Alex Strathdee: And like, it might move books, like, no, like where your goal is to hire us to move books. And we're going to figure out what the best ways based on your network, based on what you're good at, you know, we're going to figure out what the best ways to move a book for you are. So that's, and, and also based on the book and the niche.
[00:38:18] Alex Strathdee: So
[00:38:19] Corey Quinn: I love that. And I love, so the term you use the term seeding the book, what does that mean specifically?
[00:38:24] Alex Strathdee: Yeah, so it's, it's a term that I've stolen, you know, the, the, like I said, uh, Bill Gladstone was a big proponent of it. Another one of my favorite authors is, uh, and, and he's lucky enough where he's become a friend now is Rob Fitzpatrick, who wrote a book called Writings for Books.
[00:38:38] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. And in that book, you know, he says you only need to seed a thousand copies. So seeding, basically seeding the market. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's a great, so his whole thing. And he does it because he focuses on micro communities, which is a whole different level of marketing, which is genius. You know, essentially if you get, you speak at an event, you get 300 people there, you know, who to have your book, you know, they're going to talk to each other and you're starting to create that communication.
[00:38:59] Alex Strathdee: Right. It's the same way product marketing works. When you go to like, you know, like a sunglasses company is going to try and make it big and like one city before they go out, you know, they're not going to focus their marketing on the whole, on the whole country at once. Right. Right. Like you want to.
[00:39:10] Alex Strathdee: Right. Build a community of people who are really supporting you. And so, you know, when I wrote Fitzpatrick, you know, he, he focuses really on that community aspect, which I think gets them a long way. And it's definitely part of how we're implementing our stuff, but you know, he says you only need to move a thousand copies, uh, into the wild.
[00:39:24] Alex Strathdee: And so seeding copies, you know, example of that is John Stralicky, who's the author of cafe on the edge of the world, went to chamber of commerce meeting after chamber of commerce meeting, you know, all around the country and handed out books one by one. That's what I mean by seeding. It doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't matter if they bought it or you gave it away for free.
[00:39:40] Alex Strathdee: What matters is that someone is reading it and you know, a real person's actually reading it. And that's what, you know, John Streloky did. Now John has sold over 8 million copies of his books. And that was because he seeded copies into the market. So that's what seeding, if you're an author, you need to seed copies into the market.
[00:39:55] Corey Quinn: And so the assumption is that after a certain number, whether it be a thousand, five thousand, twenty thousand that the book has, is you no longer need to push as hard to get it out there, that there's going to be some kind of organic lift that will naturally help the book to sell more.
[00:40:09] Alex Strathdee: Exactly. It gives you permission to stop marketing because, you know, one of the issues authors have and why, well, I think one of the frustrations with the book marketing industry as a whole is because anyone's going to come and try and sell you on, on, you know, some sort of way to reach readers, right?
[00:40:23] Alex Strathdee: But. The, you know, when do you stop? When can you stop spending money? What even is your goal? Like, you know, most authors when they launch their book, they don't even have a goal for what they're trying to do with their marketing and it's like without a goal or an end point, you can spend endless amounts of time and money trying to market your book as you know, when you, when you create your marketing, my, my whole new book that's coming out in early February, all about this, it's, you need to start with the, you know, the end in mind where, you know, you're committing to move, A thousand copies of your book, you're committing to move 10, 000 copies of your book.
[00:40:52] Alex Strathdee: And you don't stop marketing until you've, you know, you've met that goal. Or once you hit that goal, you say, okay, I've done the best I can. If there's no organic traffic, I should probably move on to the book. The book probably just isn't going to take over and I don't need to spend more money. I don't need to spend more time on it.
[00:41:07] Alex Strathdee: So the problem with book marketing is it's kind of like this endless thing that authors don't know when they've been successful. And I want to change that. I want authors to. have just, it's basically bringing science into marketing, you know launching a book. So
[00:41:20] Corey Quinn: it's like, uh, you need to create a definition of done, like what does done look like?
[00:41:24] Alex Strathdee: Right. And that's, you know, that's a great way to say it. Uh, I might have to steal that from you, but, um, the, uh,
[00:41:29] Corey Quinn: the
[00:41:32] Alex Strathdee: thousand, you know, when, when people are trying to figure out, do I need to move a thousand copies or do I need to move 10, 000, which is it, you know, it's kind of like, if this is your lifelong project and you're like, you're all in on your book.
[00:41:44] Alex Strathdee: Well, then it's probably closer to 20, 000. Like you, that way, if you move 20, 000 copies and there's no organic sales, the book sucks. I'm sorry. But like, and no author who's come to me has ever said their book sucks. And you know, they're just, there are books out there that are, you know, like a ship that's made of lead, right?
[00:41:58] Alex Strathdee: They sink. Yeah. As if you
[00:42:00] Corey Quinn: can't argue, you can't argue with the marketplace, right? You can only force a book in someone's hands. If it's not, there's no real value being. You know, uh, achieved by your readers, then that's a good signal. Yeah.
[00:42:10] Alex Strathdee: And, you know, 10 or if you move a thousand copies, you know, a thousand is the minimum.
[00:42:14] Alex Strathdee: If you move less than a thousand, you haven't marketed your book. And, um, you know, if that way, you know, if it's really, really good, yep. It'll take off. If you get a thousand copies and into like a community of people, which is what Rob talks about, then, you know, that absolutely. And if it's not, you know, a huge part of it.
[00:42:29] Alex Strathdee: Huge part of what you're trying to do, then, you know, just go for a thousand. But if it's like the more important that book is to you is how you choose that number.
[00:42:38] Corey Quinn: Let's jump into the art and science of Amazon ads for just a couple minutes before we wrap up. What are some common myths as it relates to launching a book?
[00:42:46] Alex Strathdee: So one, a lot of that, you know, any of those titles are actually going to make your book sell, you know, like the Amazon bestseller. I know the wall street journalist just went away or like USA Today. You know, there are a lot of people who pay a lot of money for those lists or like New York times. That is the hardest one because it is somewhat editorial, but even there are people who know how to, to still.
[00:43:05] Alex Strathdee: You know, game it to some extent, the second a list comes out, trust me, there's people out there who were trying to reverse engineer it and figure out how to game it. Right. And these lists are always trying to stay ahead and figure out some care more than others. But so one is that, you know, a title does not, and even when you look around, if you have a colleague, you saying they're an Amazon bestseller and you're like, Oh wow.
[00:43:22] Alex Strathdee: And you know, how did they do it? I should be able to do it. It's like, hang on now, all you have to do is be in the right category and move 10 books in a day, you know, and, and you're an Amazon bestseller. I mean, there's some categories you can move three books in a day and be an Amazon bestseller. You know, the, so that's, that's, I'd say a big one with Amazon ads.
[00:43:37] Alex Strathdee: You know, I, I think a lot of people, you know, understand that the, the days of Amazon ads, just making most people. You know, profit on their book is going, you know, now, you know, we have a book every now and again, maybe one of the, you know, one in a thousand that Amazon will just love and take off and it'll be profitable, you know, but, and, you know, there, for no, seemingly no rhyme or reason,
[00:43:57] Corey Quinn: if a book is not written to make money, what's a book for
[00:44:01] Alex Strathdee: Yeah.
[00:44:02] Alex Strathdee: So, well, I mean, you know, people will say there's no money, money in books, but you know, most of the reason why, you know, like to give you a breakdown of our clientele, you know, and we could even niche down on this and maybe we should at some point, but, you know, 10 percent of our authors are just passionate authors, right?
[00:44:14] Alex Strathdee: You know, they, they've got a book, they want to, you know, be exploratory, see how they can move copies, you know, 30 percent of our clientele are, are breakeven or better on their books. And that doesn't, you shouldn't hear that and be like, Oh, so 30 percent of people with books are breakeven. It's like, no, that's 30 percent of the people that we, you know, we work with.
[00:44:31] Alex Strathdee: Right. So there's a reason we work with them and it's because we think their book can be profitable. Right. This is like Michael Bengay Stanier, for example, or you said his name, Chris MBS, that's, uh, we'll go with MBS,
[00:44:41] Corey Quinn: stay near,
[00:44:41] Alex Strathdee: stay near. That's how you say it. And then the rest, you know, 60 percent of our clients, which is the majority of them are using the book, the lead generation, right?
[00:44:48] Alex Strathdee: So for those clients, we're, we're focused on acquiring readers for anywhere from, you know, 3 to 15, you know, and they're usually selling like 50, 000 coaching program or a hundred thousand dollar coaching programmer. You know, at least a couple thousand dollars of a coaching program or course or something.
[00:45:03] Alex Strathdee: Right. So, you know, their, their whole thing is they're trying to get leads. So that's the breakdown of the type of people that we work with and what they're looking for. So it's important for you to know, you know, what is it again, start with the end in mind, right? That's a big part of it. And I'd say the third part that's really important, especially when it comes to Amazon ads is making sure you have the right readers and this goes back to overall book marketing as well, is if you like, that's great.
[00:45:24] Alex Strathdee: If like, You know, your cousin, your brother, your sister, your mom, your dad, your grandparents buy your book. If they aren't the person who that book is intended to solve a problem for that that sale is it's, it's a feel good sale. It's like authors who spend thousands of dollars on their author website, but get no traffic to it.
[00:45:41] Alex Strathdee: Right. It's like, if you don't, you know, it's not, it's not a real sale. That's going to actually do something for your book. So realizing that the type of reader that's buying your book on Amazon. It's one of the reasons why I used to say like, Oh, there's neat reviews. Try something like Pubby, which is where you, you know, you review other people's books.
[00:45:56] Alex Strathdee: They review your book. And now I, you know, I totally have turned off from that because if you, you know, most of the people on Pubby are fiction readers. If you have a bunch of people who usually read fiction and your book is a business book, You know, you're essentially signaling to Amazon that you're, you're going to have a bunch of that your book is fiction or for fiction readers, and that's who your book's going to show or who Amazon's going to show your book to.
[00:46:14] Alex Strathdee: So you want to make sure that you are really like, you know, sending the algorithms, the right messages, because Amazon does look at, you know, the, the reading habits of these different books, uh, the, and these different reader profiles, and if you don't, you know, fit into one of those, the right reader profile, like you're never, you're really going to screw yourself on Amazon, which is one big recommendation engine.
[00:46:32] Alex Strathdee: So.
[00:46:33] Corey Quinn: Well, which is again, you know, goes to reinforcing the idea that the more specific your, maybe not only your agency, but also your book is for those. If you track those specific readers, you're higher, like there's a higher likelihood that Amazon will organically refer your book to other readers who look like them, that exactly.
[00:46:51] Corey Quinn: Yeah. Awesome. So you mentioned Tik TOK shop before we wrap. I wanted to hear what your thoughts on what's, what's happening with that as relates to the book sales.
[00:46:59] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. And, you know, this is why, the reason why, you know, I called Laura Russell earlier, our chief marketing scientist is because that's what we literally have someone on our team who his sole focus is to figure out what marketing is working right now.
[00:47:10] Alex Strathdee: And then my job is, is essentially the way that I see it as to systematize and productize that for our authors. Right. So like, how can we then deliver what, you know, the, the most excellent way of, of executing that one thing. Right. And her job is to figure out, okay, what is that thing? Like, what do we need to be executing on?
[00:47:26] Alex Strathdee: And so with the, um, You know, and then it might break traditional roles of company titles or whatever, but you know, it's just what works for us. And so TikTok shop is one of those. I mean, you have authors who are now, and it's because there's a whole affiliation system, you know, it's, it's interesting where Amazon, you know, grew up as a bookstore.
[00:47:43] Alex Strathdee: Now TikTok has the audience. They have a young audience that is, you know, People think books are going away, you know, who knows with AI, I think people are actually going to read more because they're going to have more time on their hands, but, you know, when it comes to, and there is 3 percent market growth, you know, year over year for the nonfiction book readership.
[00:48:00] Alex Strathdee: And so, you know, the way when it comes to. Moving now onto the next generation of readers, you know, that is TikTok. And so, you know, Amazon's now, or TikTok's now offering readers to buy those books directly on TikTok and have the authors, you know, supply those books. And it's, I wonder, you know, I don't know if Amazon sees it coming, but I I'm curious if it's going to completely disrupt their, their book model, which is how Amazon started, but yeah.
[00:48:24] Alex Strathdee: So, I mean, if that's where books are moving, that's where you need to be as an author. You know, we have examples on our podcast, you know, Joseph Nguyen and Colton DuBell, who has a whole courses and books about drawing manga, which I didn't even know about it, know about, which is basically anime, drawing anime.
[00:48:40] Alex Strathdee: And I mean, he sells, you know, he has over a hundred thousand followers on Tik Tok and you know, and it's all, you know, so yeah, Tik Tok's a big play to drive book sales. I mean, a lot of, I mean, Joseph's a major, I don't know his full numbers, but a large, Portion of his book sales and now tick tock shop. So
[00:48:56] Corey Quinn: beautiful.
[00:48:57] Corey Quinn: Yeah, we do live in the attention economy and tick tock has got a lot of our attention. So
[00:49:02] Alex Strathdee: I, and I literally don't have tick tock. We now have an intern, the first intern we ever wrote on who is a 19 year old college kid in marketing. Who is now recording Tik TOKs of me, you know, the, uh, and for us to, you know, start putting out there, I do not have Tik TOK on my phone.
[00:49:16] Alex Strathdee: I never want to have a download Tik TOK. So I'm hoping my team can take that one on for me, but you know, it's still my, I still need to know about it and learn about, you know, what does work, what doesn't work, stuff like that. So
[00:49:26] Corey Quinn: of course, of course. All right. Two more questions before we wrap up. First one is for the listening audience who, again, are a lot of agency owners or business owners who are wanting to scale, wanting to be able to maybe produce some of the results that you have.
[00:49:40] Corey Quinn: What advice would you have for them as relates to, you know, struggling with scaling and growing a successful agency?
[00:49:49] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. I mean, Like for a business to be successful, you've got to have a consistent lead gen source. Like that was kind of a big thing for us that, that worked well. I burnt out very early on because I was working 70 or 80 hours a week, trying to do everything.
[00:50:02] Alex Strathdee: Start hiring virtual assistants internationally as soon as you can. I mean, that's made a huge difference for us. I hire hours. A lot of hours initially were hired off of a platform called onlinejobs.ph The average salary in the Philippines is 4 per hour. Most of ours make between 8 to 10 a week. 10 an hour.
[00:50:17] Alex Strathdee: I mean, we have some employees in the Philippines who make as much as like 50, 60 K a year, which for over there is insane, even higher. And, uh, you know, so I think getting, I mean, just having a team and starting to outsource the small things as soon as you can be like, for example, for me, that was actually the management of the ads, like, you know, and.
[00:50:35] Alex Strathdee: You know, I said, yeah, there's more people who are smarter than I am. It's also, you know, on that topic, but you know, it's also like, you just got to be willing to go through some bad employees too. Like, you know, Sarah, Sarah Blakely and Warren Buffett will tell you that they still only get hiring right. 50 percent of the time.
[00:50:49] Alex Strathdee: So like, don't get me wrong. It's not easy and you're going to go through bad people, but you just got to get to the good ones. So,
[00:50:55] Corey Quinn: so I've got to sometimes go through the mud to get to the other side.
[00:50:58] Alex Strathdee: Yeah,
[00:50:59] Corey Quinn: I love that. And I love the, the, the base of bringing on. Admin help. It is so easy today to find very capable people overseas for, as you said, as low as 4, you know, up to 10 who, I'll just give you my, for my situation, I have a, I have an assistant.
[00:51:18] Corey Quinn: She's college educated, amazing, amazing person changed my life. Yeah. Just by bringing her on. That's amazing. Yeah. It's really wonderful. Last question. What's your motivation?
[00:51:30] Alex Strathdee: Yeah. What is my motivation? I think just, uh, Oh, I mean with in this business, it's authors, right? Like it's solving my own problem.
[00:51:37] Alex Strathdee: You know, I came in as an author who, you know, had believed in a lot of things about book marketing and, and I just, you know, I want to, I want to fix the industry and I know that I'm not the only one trying to fix the industry and you know, all the power to all those people who are also trying to fix it because I think it is just a very scammy industry.
[00:51:52] Alex Strathdee: You know, it's, and it's because I think. You know, books are, there's such an ego connected to someone's book, right? It's their baby. And so, you know, you're not just selling them, you know, book sales. You're not just selling them clients. You're, you're selling them significance as well. So there's a portion of, of the industry that is that.
[00:52:07] Alex Strathdee: And so because of that, I think there's a lot of people who take advantage of that. So, you know, our goal is to be, is to be an agency that kind of. Turns that model on its head and then, you know, to make sure that my, you know, whenever my life comes to a close that, you know, I've been a benefit on society.
[00:52:21] Alex Strathdee: Right. I mean, I think it's just like, you know, some people are spiritual and, you know, by, by all means, I totally respect that. We have people, team members who are very spiritual and, uh, you know, like we, you know, You know, we'll pray at our holiday party and stuff. And, you know, I consider myself somewhat agnostic, but, you know, I, I totally respect everyone's, um, you know, religion.
[00:52:38] Alex Strathdee: So, you know, and I think for those that have a religious purpose, I think it's fantastic. Mine, I think is just, you know, leaving humanity better than, better than I found it.
[00:52:45] Corey Quinn: Well, having dabbled in the book world with, uh, with my first book here, I can appreciate the work that you're doing. It is needed. For sure.
[00:52:54] Corey Quinn: And, uh, congratulations on the success so far. I'm looking forward to watching you continue to blossom.
[00:52:59] Alex Strathdee: Corey, I can't wait to grow with you. We've been, we've been email friends for, for at least I think a year plus now. So I can't wait to stay in contact and see everything you do too. And I mean, you, You, I mean, I, I listen, you know, I've been a listener to the show before and, you know, just listening.
[00:53:15] Alex Strathdee: I know, you know, you taking Scorpion from 20 to 150 million, like you are, you, you, you do a good job of letting your guests talk. You know, I monologue a lot, but there's a lot to be learned from you as well, my friend. So you'll, you'll have to like interview yourself on a, on an episode once
[00:53:28] Corey Quinn: I've been, I've been told that before.
[00:53:30] Corey Quinn: And so, uh, you know, the listeners are, are in store for some solo, uh, episodes coming up, but I'll be sharing some.
[00:53:36] Alex Strathdee: I'm glad. Thanks Yeah. Thanks, Corey.
[00:53:39] Corey Quinn: Thanks for tuning in to the deep specialization podcast. If you haven't checked out my bestselling book, anyone, not everyone, you can download the audio book for free right now by going to anyone, not everyone.
[00:53:51] Corey Quinn: com. That's anyone, not everyone. com. And finally, a special thank you to our sponsor E2M. We'll see you in the next episode.
[00:54:01] Transcribed
