DeepSpecialization_Dan Serard_EP 67_Audio_Edited_V1
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[00:00:00] Corey Quinn: Welcome to the deep specialization podcast, the show where we blend focus, strategy, and client intimacy in order to scale and simplify our businesses and our lives. I'm your host, Corey Quinn. Let's jump into the show. Today, I'm joined by the VP of sales and marketing of the cannabis creative group, Dan Serard.
[00:00:18] Corey Quinn: Welcome Dan.
[00:00:20] Dan Serard: Thanks Corey. Thanks for having me on the show.
[00:00:22] Corey Quinn: I'm super excited for our conversation. Would you mind just introducing yourself, telling the audience a little bit about who you are and the work you do?
[00:00:30] Dan Serard: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Dan Serard. I head, uh, business development and marketing at Cannabis Creative Group.
[00:00:36] Dan Serard: So I'm based up here in Boston, Massachusetts, right outside of Boston. I have been working with Cannabis Creative Group since early 2018, where I have, uh, really started the vertical here. So I know that, you know, we're jumping into Uh, niche audiences and niche verticals and really getting into specifics and a little unique perspective where when I got hired, I actually found the job on Indeed and the agency was existing before.
[00:01:04] Dan Serard: So we have been an agency since 2008, uh, CHAMP Internet as a generalized agency. And the CEO and co founders of that agency hired me to really develop a vertical into an emerging industry, the cannabis industry.
[00:01:21] Corey Quinn: Yeah. Okay. So there's a lot done back there.
[00:01:23] Dan Serard: Yes.
[00:01:24] Corey Quinn: Yeah. And, and I'm, I'm just, I'm so excited to, to hear all about this.
[00:01:29] Corey Quinn: So just to feed this back to you, Champion is the parent company that you work for. Is that right?
[00:01:34] Dan Serard: Right. Champ Internet.
[00:01:36] Corey Quinn: Champ Internet. Excuse me. And Champ was started in 2008 and they're still around obviously today, and they are, as you said, more of a generalist agency. Is that right?
[00:01:47] Dan Serard: Exactly. Okay.
[00:01:48] Corey Quinn: Okay.
[00:01:48] Corey Quinn: And so when you say journalists, like who, who do they typically serve?
[00:01:52] Dan Serard: Yeah, absolutely. So Champ's background is really in a few different areas that we have experience in e commerce, which is very general.
[00:02:02] Corey Quinn: Sure.
[00:02:03] Dan Serard: We do a lot of travel and tourism,
[00:02:06] Corey Quinn: food and beverage.
[00:02:08] Dan Serard: We do a lot in manufacturing. And professional services and then any business that's looking for marketing services.
[00:02:15] Dan Serard: So
[00:02:15] Corey Quinn: there it is.
[00:02:17] Dan Serard: Exactly. Exactly. So as a, as a, you know, overview of champ, you know, what services we, we work on and have worked on since 2008, our full service agency. So branding, website design, social media, search engine optimization, paid advertising, and social media.
[00:02:35] Corey Quinn: Okay. Full suite there. And so what was happening at Champ Internet in 2018 that caused the founders to say, Hey, you know, we, we want to take a, take a vertical market approach.
[00:02:48] Dan Serard: Yeah, definitely. There was a few things that happened, uh, with the founders and life in general. First and foremost, we as Champ Internet before my time, Had a couple clients in the cannabis industry. We worked with a dispensary up in Maine and a cannabis extraction lab in Massachusetts, and we didn't know how to position these clients necessarily on our website, where we did some amazing work with them, but we also work with nonprofit attorneys and school districts and all these other businesses who we didn't know if.
[00:03:21] Dan Serard: At that time, in 2017, 2018, if cannabis was perceived as okay to work with. So that was one side of the story. The other side of the story is, uh, Seth Warby, who's the CEO and founder of Champ Internet, Cannabis Creative Group, has a fond interest in cannabis, and other employees at the agency did as well.
[00:03:40] Dan Serard: So it was something that they felt very comfortable doing. Which, you know, nonprofit attorney work is great and working with the marina is lovely to go on boat rides, but something that, you know, is near and dear to their history and passion is definitely something that they're interested in. And then the third piece of the puzzle there that worked out was recreational cannabis was about to be legalized in the state of Massachusetts.
[00:04:03] Dan Serard: So it was legalized in a few other states like Colorado and California and Oregon and Washington. Um, But really no states on the East Coast. So Seth and Josephine, the other co founder, saw this as an opportunity to really be a first mover in the cannabis industry that was newly emerging in Massachusetts as the first state on the East Coast to legalize recreationally.
[00:04:25] Dan Serard: And that's really where they developed Cannabis Creative Group as the brand.
[00:04:30] Corey Quinn: Okay. That's super helpful. Still, there's a lot there I want to dive in. I love, I love the fact that you mentioned that one of the three things that caused them ultimately to, to lean into this vertical was the fact that they had a passion for it.
[00:04:47] Corey Quinn: And I think in some respects, what I see a lot of agency owners who are kind of dabbling in different verticals, they're making more of a logical decision while they're, you know, maybe there's a lot of ad spend here, maybe there's a large, large team, but the ingredient that typically is missing is that level of, of care, empathy, you know, customer intimacy, like a real genuine emotional connection with that, with that industry, if you will.
[00:05:13] Corey Quinn: In this case, this was the cannabis industry. And, and, uh, so just for For reference today, just give listeners a sense of where the business is all the way forward to today, we're going to go back to 2018, but just today, how, you know, tell us a little bit about the Cannabis Creative Group business.
[00:05:29] Dan Serard: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:05:30] Dan Serard: So today we have grown the business from those two clients in 2018 to we've worked with over 400 cannabis businesses. We've operated it in over 30 states in Europe, Mexico, and Canada. So Cannabis Creative Group has absolutely. Took off like wildfire and it's a, it's a majority of our business. I would say I'd have to look at the numbers, but probably 80 to 85 percent of the agency's business as a whole now over the last five or six years.
[00:06:01] Corey Quinn: Do you mean the champion? I'm sorry, champs. Overall business or just cannabis creative business?
[00:06:07] Dan Serard: The overall business between CHAMP and Cannabis Creative Group. So, it's two brands under one roof with the same team working on multiple projects.
[00:06:16] Corey Quinn: Got it. Okay. So, of that, of the combined brands, it represents a very significant amount of the revenue.
[00:06:23] Dan Serard: Exactly.
[00:06:23] Corey Quinn: Yep. Got it. All right. So, that's helpful context. Let's go back to 2018 just for a minute here. Sure. And so, you, you had the two clients, you had, there was, Massachusetts was coming on board as it relates to, to recreational legalization. You had the, the passion. Why not just, and you mentioned this a little bit, but just, you know, if there's, I'm curious if there's any other drivers behind, well, why not just, you know, focus the efforts Champion and under that brand, why, why launch a separate brand?
[00:06:55] Dan Serard: Yeah, really the couple of movers here were that our team was able to develop some nuances, knowing the cannabis industry and learning from our clients. That really gave us a leg up in terms of the work that we could do, the value that we could provide to our clients. So by, and as background for listeners in the cannabis industry, it's federally illegal still.
[00:07:19] Dan Serard: Okay. So there are many restrictions in terms of what you can and can't do online in terms of advertising, in terms of what you can say, what you can't say. So for our team, we had to learn a lot of this, you know, can you run Google ads? Can you run social media ads? If so, how and find these loopholes. So what we really did was Why we wanted to spin off is because we're the cannabis operators know that it's very hard to do.
[00:07:46] Dan Serard: So when looking at an agency that works with many different companies, you need to learn the cannabis industry. It's very, it's a very difficult industry to learn and it takes time. It takes trial by error. So in order for us to position ourselves as a leader in the East coast. Knowing that we have multiple clients under our belt, that's really why we developed this alongside, you know, working with some nonprofit attorneys and people we don't think would necessarily, or see cannabis as taboo.
[00:08:16] Dan Serard: We wanted to separate those two entities. So that was really the two core factors there.
[00:08:21] Corey Quinn: And then they decided to, to bring you on as a dedicated employee to help build this brand. Is that right?
[00:08:28] Dan Serard: Yeah, exactly. So the team at champ, uh, Seth and, and his, uh, business partner, Josephine, the co founder, they raised some capital to hire me and what my goal was, was to see if this was going to work and really, you know, either in, in six months, we're going to be doing well.
[00:08:44] Dan Serard: And, you know, this, This is successful and we've figured out a vertical or in six months, you know, I might might have not, not have a job anymore. So, you know, I, I come from a background in, in health and wellness and, uh, sales management. So I've also launched a couple of different product lines, uh, gone to market with some, uh, new, new tropics and vitamins and in the food and beverage space.
[00:09:09] Dan Serard: So I've, I've done a little bit of go to market where I can really look at in industry and figure out how to tap into the right decision makers. Uh, learn the industry and, and really determine if there's a good fit or not. So that was really my goal for the first six months is to just throw stuff against the wall and see if it sticks.
[00:09:30] Dan Serard: And if it does, that's great. And, and, and it did lucky for me. Yeah.
[00:09:35] Corey Quinn: Right. And so obviously this was an expanding industry at the same time, where there are a lot of other agencies at that time, really focusing in the way that you guys were.
[00:09:46] Dan Serard: Yeah, that's a great question. From my research, there was really two or three agencies in the U S that had some experience.
[00:09:55] Dan Serard: Those were based in Washington and I think California. So some of the early moving States, there were, there were none on the East coast and that's where we really saw that there was an opportunity. Knowing that, you know, and once again, for, for listeners that may not know the cannabis industry, it's state regulated.
[00:10:13] Dan Serard: So every state is very different in terms of how cannabis is sold, what the operations look like. And, and honestly, the industry as a whole is very siloed. So knowing that there were no movers yet in Massachusetts, it allowed us an opportunity to be the first in the market. Dedicated towards all the dispensaries and CBD stores and brands that were coming online.
[00:10:36] Corey Quinn: So as you were stepping into this new role, it sounds like you had a great background for this. Were you, had you worked in cannabis prior to taking this role?
[00:10:45] Dan Serard: Yeah, that's a great question. Let's see here. Not professionally or legally, let's say. So cannabis industry, it's adult use industry. I'm sure, you know, many people know that it's very different and Um, newly regulated, I used to live in California and in California in 2014, 2015, I spent some time up in Humboldt County, which is really the mecca for cannabis in the United States.
[00:11:10] Dan Serard: So I had a friend who had a farm up there. I was able to really see that side of the market as it was legal there from medicinal use and soon to be recreational use. I really see the operations there from, from a standpoint working within So that was a really fun experience for me, a crazy experience, but it allowed me some of that background to see how some of these operators have built, especially in the home of cannabis, I would call it in the United States.
[00:11:41] Corey Quinn: And were you ever tempted to join that part of the industry as far as, you know, becoming involved in the production?
[00:11:48] Dan Serard: I, yes, you know, that is one thing that is, is really cool. It's, it's crazy to see, um, that side of the industry progress. And I talk to people every day who, who asked me, you know, why do I work with an ancillary business outside of the production side of things?
[00:12:03] Dan Serard: You know, my, my response to them is why would I work with one brand when I can work with hundreds, right? And see all these cool and innovative products and really help multiple brands go to market instead of just be, you know, laser focused on one, it's a really unique opportunity that I, that I get to be involved in.
[00:12:21] Corey Quinn: Really cool. And so in those early days, you mentioned you'd be through a bunch of spaghetti at the wall. You did a lot of things. What, what were the things that didn't work out and what were the things that didn't work out in those early days?
[00:12:32] Dan Serard: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you know, Corey, I've listened to your podcast a lot and I think people have mixed feelings on trade shows and if they work or not, what I can tell you is we had tremendous success with trade shows in the beginning and we invested heavily into being in front of audiences, both speaking and exhibiting.
[00:12:51] Dan Serard: And these are cannabis So it's operators, it's ancillary businesses. It's more than just, you know, marketing people who get together and talk about SEO, knowing that we were really the only mover in emerging markets. We were the only marketing agency at trade shows for, for years. It really gave us a leg up on the competition.
[00:13:12] Dan Serard: It really allowed us to establish ourselves as a thought leader and speaking engagements and the cannabis industry, although it's growing quickly, I guess, no pun intended. It's still small. So, so we knew all the major players. We knew the, the Coca Cola's and the Pepsi's of cannabis. We knew all, you know, the, the HubSpot's of cannabis and all the CRM platforms.
[00:13:31] Dan Serard: So it was a really interesting time because We saw this legal market starting and we were on the ground floor and and with them, you know, every month. So that was really something that worked. I also am not going to lie. I prospected and cold called and cold emailed. More than a regular, you know, BDR would, because I knew that really I had a timeframe here, so it was really interesting because how do you get contact data from a company who hasn't even launched yet, right?
[00:14:04] Dan Serard: We worked with, we worked with a lot of dispensaries who just received their license, but they're not, they don't have a Google my business. I can't look up their website. So we, we really did some research into how to find these contacts and found some state databases. That when someone applies for a license, they fill out a PDF form, that PDF form has their name and email and phone number.
[00:14:29] Dan Serard: And it was a lot of manual scraping because once again, in the cannabis industry, there's no scraping tools. There were no zoom infos at the time. So I spent hours and hours and hours looking through hundreds of PDFs to, you know, try to find that scribble of the signature and see what their name was and input that into our CRM to reach out.
[00:14:49] Dan Serard: So that was, that was a lot of work, but it paid off very well. So I would say. You know, in terms of trade shows and events and prospecting was really how we developed our name in the cannabis industry. There was no, you know, at that time, there was some search volume for cannabis marketing agencies, but there was not much, which luckily we invested into.
[00:15:13] Dan Serard: We really invested into a great website, high performing website. Invested in or SEO team where now, if you look at, you know, cannabis marketing agencies were, were number one. So that was the third thing I would say that, that we really focused on knowing that our, our background in champ is search and Seth's background is search.
[00:15:30] Dan Serard: So he knew that, you know, if we invest the time now, we're, we're going to own that space in the future.
[00:15:37] Corey Quinn: Awesome. So when it comes to the trade shows, it wasn't just having a booth. Did you, you, you, you, you spoke from the stage and those types of things. Yeah.
[00:15:45] Dan Serard: Yeah, exactly. So myself, Josephine, Seth, we did a lot of speaking engagements, everyone that we could, we did.
[00:15:52] Dan Serard: I mean, I was traveling in all random parts of the country to trade shows where there's 10, 10 exhibitors at a hotel basement and spent a lot of time on the road the first few years, really growing as a thought leader in the space. And that took some time, but I would say that's really how we get a lot of our business now is, is being a thought leader.
[00:16:13] Dan Serard: People know who we are and, and referrals.
[00:16:17] Corey Quinn: What, what channels besides trade shows and conferences do you focus on for your thought leadership?
[00:16:23] Dan Serard: Yeah, definitely. We do a lot of PR now. So in the cannabis industry, there's award platforms that we've been recognized in, and that has been really successful with us where we can showcase the great work that we've had over the years.
[00:16:35] Dan Serard: I also contribute to Rolling Stone Culture Council, which is part of the magazine there. And cannabis specifically, um, I'm able to write about and offer content pieces too, which has been tremendous. And then additionally, I'm part of multiple associations. So, one of the associations that I, I work with and, and I've been on for three years is the NCIA, the National Cannabis Industry Association.
[00:17:01] Dan Serard: I sit on their marketing and advertising committee, and that's been great to really help with the industry as a whole from that standpoint, and also brainstorm with other marketing leaders in the space where, you know, they're seeing success, where they're seeing failures, where We can learn from each other.
[00:17:20] Corey Quinn: Well, I think what you guys done really well is obviously took advantage. You were aggressive to the extent that you took, uh, all the opportunities you could to get in front of your audience, to be a thought leader. I also love the fact that you are involved with the associations. That is a, an area where a lot of agencies don't.
[00:17:38] Corey Quinn: Immediately recognize the opportunity, but the fact that you are a co chair of the education and content for the actual industry association, to your point, you're, you're not only, you have authority and credibility based on that, but you're also helping to guide the industry itself, which is fantastic.
[00:17:56] Corey Quinn: And it's a, it's a real hat tip to your agency.
[00:18:00] Dan Serard: That's been great. And it's been amazing to be part of that. And really, you know, in that role, we've been able to develop some amazing content for a bunch of licensees, whether it's just marketing tips from a one on one standpoint, how to build your brand appropriately, we did an ebook, how to stand out from the crowd.
[00:18:17] Dan Serard: So, you know, in a. Now this is different at this time and age in 2024 where now we see some of these States, it's a saturated market. So how to stand out from a saturated market versus, you know, three years ago, it was you're in the only game in town. So that's been interesting as well. And there's some other, you know, associations like the cannabis marketing association and, um, there's some New York and Massachusetts local associations that we're part of too, but it's been, um, any value that we can provide to operators.
[00:18:48] Dan Serard: Even if it's not. You know, Hey, work with us for your paid search campaigns, always willing to have a conversation. And it really progresses the industry as a whole. Nice.
[00:18:58] Corey Quinn: Now that the industry is more mature than it was in the early days, how are you differentiating and positioning the agency relative to your competitors?
[00:19:08] Dan Serard: Yeah, there's a few things that we're doing, and you know, the first definitely goes to our experience. I mean, seven years of experience in the cannabis industry is a long, long time. So knowing that the team has done this for over 400 projects is really a key differentiator with us. We've also been able to look at The industry as a whole across different states.
[00:19:31] Dan Serard: Now that we've seen states progress and siloed markets progress, right? Where Massachusetts as an industry started in 2018, they've progressed. Now they're saturated in 2024 as other states come online. We're seeing the same thing happening, right? So we know right from the start, here's what's going to happen.
[00:19:50] Dan Serard: Here's how we can help you. And here's how we can differentiate yourself through marketing. So, you know, One of the interesting things that I've been doing is really defining our service offerings based on these different stages at where businesses are at. Right.
[00:20:07] Corey Quinn: Amazing. That's so good. That's so great.
[00:20:10] Corey Quinn: And the benefit. Yeah. You're taking advantage of the specialization that you have. Like no one, no, a journalist would have no clue on how to provide this kind of value, but for the, for the business and the vertical, the industry you're serving, there's like, you know, through the roof value, these people need your guidance.
[00:20:25] Corey Quinn: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Dan Serard: Yeah. And, and it's, in terms of marketing, you, it's all about timing and sales is all about timing. So to position yourself as a vertical leader, you need to understand where they're at in their business and help them with what's going on right now.
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[00:21:57] Corey Quinn: Some agencies who've taken this approach and are sort of down the road have also leaned into this idea of building a community of the, you know, of the industry. So building an online place where people can go and trade best practices and network. Have you, have you guys explored that idea?
[00:22:15] Dan Serard: Yeah, that's great.
[00:22:16] Dan Serard: And we've actually really taken this approach over the last couple of years. And, and to my comments about trade shows being very successful over the last couple of years, they've become saturated with marketing agencies and just in general. So we've also had to, you know, be front to the market and really think about how to network appropriately and build these communities.
[00:22:36] Dan Serard: And, and what we've done is two prong approach. One, we're developing networking events during some of these trade shows. So. Inviting our, our partners, our clients and prospects to interact with each other. It's been really successful for us instead of, you know, passively waiting behind a booth and seeing if anyone wants a website audit and it's fun to do too.
[00:22:56] Dan Serard: And better for your feet and then standing behind a booth. Yeah. And then the other thing that we've actually done is we've developed an event and this would be the fourth year here. And, uh, this was, you know, Seth Warby, the CEO's brainchild and it's amazing event. It's called the THC open. So it's a golf and networking event, annual event.
[00:23:17] Dan Serard: We have industry executives and it's not for consumers or people interested in the industry or researchers. It's, it costs a decent amount to get in and that's by design because we are, we have so many clients and so many partners and so many people that we talk to where we want everyone in one place to be able to interact with each other.
[00:23:41] Dan Serard: So if I can provide value, To a dispensary to help them find a CRM partner or an online menu or a email marketing partner. We developed this event to do so. So it's a one day networking event. We had about 500 people last year and it's really our platform to build that community and not even, we don't even do it under the cannabis creative group brand.
[00:24:03] Dan Serard: It's a whole separate brand itself. So it's not about cannabis creative. It's about, The industry getting to know each other and, and obviously Cannabis Creative Group has, has a feature there, but it's a way to establish that community and, and bring people together.
[00:24:18] Corey Quinn: There's something to creating connections between, you know, potential partners and clients and, and service providers when you're, when you're the one connecting them as they move forward in that connection, you're always, you're always attached to that.
[00:24:31] Corey Quinn: Right. Because you helped, you helped make that. Exactly.
[00:24:34] Dan Serard: And, uh, I'll tell you a quick story in my interview. And when I managed the health clubs, my goal was to be the mayor of the health club, to know everybody, to have a conversation with everyone, to help them however I could do it. And, uh, Seth, Seth will still tell you to this day, I said, my goal is to be the mayor of the cannabis industry and whatever conversation I have in any value that I could provide to anyone, I was willing to do so.
[00:24:59] Dan Serard: And that's really where I think has got me to where I am today. Is because it's just, you want to know everyone, you want to talk to everyone, you want to provide value to everyone. And that's a big thing for our business and, and just however we can help and, and to know everybody and talk to everybody and have a good relationship with everybody is, is really key in a vertical where it's not that big still.
[00:25:23] Dan Serard: So you, you, you're the people know each other.
[00:25:27] Corey Quinn: Yes. Yeah. And in, in fact, even verticals that are relatively established, um, uh, franchise comes to mind, it's still a small community. Right. So it's a relatively small group of people. They've been, you know, hanging out with each other for 10, 20, 15 years, right?
[00:25:42] Corey Quinn: And so they could see an outsider coming from, from miles away type of thing, right? So.
[00:25:48] Dan Serard: Okay. Absolutely.
[00:25:50] Corey Quinn: You mentioned partnerships. I know it's a part of your focus. What, what role does partnerships play in your growth?
[00:25:55] Dan Serard: Yeah, it's a huge part of our growth. And so what our partnerships program does is where we're really looking at companies that are, are adjacent to our services.
[00:26:06] Dan Serard: So if a company is looking for a email marketing platform or a text messaging platform or a packaging company, we have a list of preferred vendors that we work So I, you know, if someone says, Hey Dan, I need. You know, packaging for my, you know, edibles. I have probably three in mind. I help to, you know, work with that lead or prospect to say, okay, how many bags do you need?
[00:26:30] Dan Serard: What colors, you know, all that stuff where I can help build that relationship, know the vendor that that's needed and make those introductions. And, and that's been a key component of my role. Is really finding and vetting those lists of vendors for our clients, for our partners, for anyone in the industry.
[00:26:51] Dan Serard: So, so it helps them with their business. And like I said, if I can provide value in any way, I'm willing to do so. So there's a lot of people out there and a lot of solutions out there that don't make sense for everyone. So if I can help that person. Really define what's best for them. That's going to be a key component of our business.
[00:27:10] Dan Serard: And so, you know, we, we probably don't make any commission on that. That's just, you know, being a good person and a good company to work with.
[00:27:20] Corey Quinn: Which is playing the long game, which is obviously working for you guys. Now, do you, do you employ any salespeople on your team now?
[00:27:28] Dan Serard: Yeah, currently we have someone who's working with me in terms of marketing in sales.
[00:27:32] Dan Serard: So we've talked about, and we've had some business development people, In the agency. And you know, what I've found is that people really like talking to agency owners or people that have been with the agency for a long time, where I won't lie. I had a very, very hard time the first few years as you know, a business development rep or a sales executive.
[00:27:54] Dan Serard: Right. Once I was able to establish myself and get to know things more. Is when I really found success. So I think it's tough. I don't think it's not doable, but it has to be the right fit. And especially for our business where you need to know digital marketing, you need to know branding and you need to know the cannabis industry.
[00:28:12] Dan Serard: There's not that many people that, that do that. And it, and it takes a lot of time to be able to do that, which sometimes it doesn't work out. Because at the end of the day, you know, revenue is the important piece. So it's been an interesting part of our business in terms of how and who we hire.
[00:28:30] Corey Quinn: Do you have productized approach to the services you provide?
[00:28:35] Corey Quinn: Or is it 100 percent custom every time or somewhere in the middle?
[00:28:38] Dan Serard: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, it's somewhere in the middle right now. And for the last, let's say 14 years of the agency, it has been completely custom. Over the last couple of years, we have really two different service offerings that are more productized.
[00:28:54] Dan Serard: We focus one on a, it's called our dispensary launch package, where we know what we need to do for dispensaries to launch. They need a brand, they need a website. And they need an initial SEO presence, right? Google my business setup, meta descriptions, title tags, all that stuff. The second product offering that we're rolling out shortly here or have gone to market with, you know, a handful dozen clients is our dispensary.
[00:29:18] Dan Serard: We're going to call it growth. Package right now or boost package. We're still working on the name here. So with that, once again, you know, we've worked with dozens and dozens of clients when they are now past that launch phase, second phase is we need money, right? We need to make money. So really we put into a holistic campaign, digital marketing campaign.
[00:29:41] Dan Serard: Looking specifically at customer acquisition and customer retention. And so we have defined a few different service offerings that are specifically for retention and acquisition. And that is very similar for each dispensary, right? We kind of have a model there that, that works and we're seeing, I mean, I would say on the low end 5X return on investment on the high end 30 or 40 X ROAS.
[00:30:05] Dan Serard: So it's been, uh, it's been really interesting for a progression. Over the last, uh, year or so, once we've developed this model and really replicated it, every business is different, but when it comes down to it, the core services that they, that they need are all the same.
[00:30:21] Corey Quinn: Are the majority of these businesses that you, you guys work with, are they physical locations or is there?
[00:30:27] Corey Quinn: You know, are they online only or is there a, did they provide both channels? Like, how does that work?
[00:30:33] Dan Serard: It's, it's a great question. And I would say, you know, probably it would be tough. So we work with all different types of businesses in the cannabis industry. So we work with both B2B, B2C, you know, storefronts.
[00:30:45] Dan Serard: Extraction equipment, you name it. I would say probably about maybe 50 to 60 percent are more storefronts for us. So dispensaries themselves who sell cannabis products. And that's really why we develop those two packages because it's a majority of our clients. And we know what they need, know how to get it, and then, and know how to do it.
[00:31:05] Corey Quinn: How big is the, let's say the dispensary market as far as, in terms of businesses out there?
[00:31:11] Dan Serard: Yeah, it's, it's massive and I don't know the exact number and, you know, it depends on states, but the interesting thing and the reason why that I love cannabis so much and see a long term path for success is every year new states are coming online.
[00:31:25] Dan Serard: So, yeah, you know, there might be just, you know, Massachusetts and Maine and New York and New Jersey this year, but next year, you know, Minnesota and Virginia and all these other states. So it's going to be exponentially. As years go on and we can really recycle the same model time over time again across, you know, all 50 states, which, you know, if it goes legal, which I, you know, predict that it will eventually, it's a good model for us.
[00:31:53] Dan Serard: And to that note, you know, it, it selfishly, I would say it makes sense. Our business better if it doesn't go federally legal across the board and it goes state by state because then we can do this instead of, you know, everyone goes across the board. And that, I mean, that would, my prediction, I would say that would be a disaster.
[00:32:10] Dan Serard: If just, we opened up the floodgates and any state can open up a dispensary and there's just federal rules around it versus the existing state rules, it would just be a nightmare. So I don't really see that happening from just the federal standpoint. I think it would be. Continue state by state.
[00:32:28] Corey Quinn: Interesting. Let's talk about just this overall approach to verticalization. Have there been any negatives in your experience to, to having this tight focus on the cannabis industry?
[00:32:40] Dan Serard: Yeah, definitely. I mean, one of the, uh, negative experiences is the risk factor of cannabis as a whole. That can get shut down by the federal government at any time.
[00:32:50] Dan Serard: at any point, right? Where if that happens now, I don't think that's going to happen, but we need to prepare for that. Right? And so we've actually, over the last couple of years, really focused some time on developing some other verticals and in champ to make sure that we're set up for success and we're scaling.
[00:33:07] Dan Serard: Same playbook for cannabis, but other verticals. So we, we've been really looking into that because of two reasons. One is, you know, what, what if federally shuts down and then to, you know, transparently in cannabis, it was not a great year last year. And in the year before the industry really took a fall.
[00:33:23] Dan Serard: So with that being said, you know, the first things to cut. And, and for, for listeners out there that aren't familiar with the cannabis industry is, is marketing is not an expense that a business owner can write off because of 280E, which means that really the only business expense you can write off is your product, your cost of goods.
[00:33:43] Dan Serard: So marketing is, is a very expensive piece of, of cannabis companies, businesses that they're paying full price for. So if their business is not doing well and the industry is not doing well, Marketing is going to be the first thing that gets cut.
[00:33:58] Corey Quinn: And so the way to offset that, as you mentioned, you're, you're developing some new, some new verticals that should, you know, the, the, the climate change at the federal level, that, that would be a place where you guys can go and, and, and redeploy focus and resources and whatnot.
[00:34:16] Dan Serard: Exactly. So, so one of the, my main tasks over the last year and a half here is to look at all of our past clients and look at the clients that we've been successful with in terms of e commerce and traveling, tourism and restaurants and food and beverage, and really see one. You know, who was the best retention, who sticks around the longest, right?
[00:34:37] Dan Serard: Who has budgets to work with us and who have we had most success with. So in terms of defining verticals, you know, the, the passion, I would say that, that our company has for cannabis is not necessarily a huge factor in terms of this side of the business, but as we need to adjust, it's, it's the business needs to make money.
[00:34:57] Dan Serard: And, you know, transparently, some of our verticals are pretty fun. So, you know, we work with a lot of boating and marina clients. Food and beverage, we do a lot in the restaurant and the restaurant space, travel and tourism. So although those aren't cannabis, they're, there's still a lot of fun to work on.
[00:35:15] Corey Quinn: That's great. Curious about your growth as a contributor to the company. I know that you started off in, I guess, business development, your VP, now your partner in the, in this agency, which is wonderful, what have been some, some major milestones in, in your progression, whether at this company or previous?
[00:35:32] Corey Quinn: Yes.
[00:35:33] Dan Serard: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, being and joining the leadership team at this agency has been the biggest thing for me in terms of a milestone that I've hit where we're still small business. You know, I think our leadership team is five or six of us now where there isn't a lot of red tape, right?
[00:35:51] Dan Serard: So before, you know, when I was a business development rep and a sales executive, It was a lot of, Hey, can I do this? Hey, I have this idea. Hey, you know, what do you think about this? Where, where now, you know, I can run with these ideas and see if they're successful, like our, you know, to service offering packages that we've launched and, and really be able to.
[00:36:11] Dan Serard: You know, check and balance with the operations team and the CEO is, Hey, I'm coming at this from a sales front because I think this is gonna work. Does it line up operationally? If so, you know, that's great. If it doesn't, let's adjust. And, and really, that was a big, that was the biggest milestone for me.
[00:36:28] Dan Serard: Was to be able to work with the amazing minds of our leadership team to be able to tailor these service offerings accordingly and making sure that not only do they make sense for, from a sales perspective, but we're, we're making money doing what we're doing and it operationally makes sense.
[00:36:46] Corey Quinn: What do you feel were the things that helped you to get to the point where you could join the leadership table?
[00:36:53] Dan Serard: Yeah, I think, you know, in a, in a unique scenario that I was, I really dove right in and learned the cannabis industry more than any, anybody else that, that I knew. I really owned it. So when anyone had questions, if it wasn't about sales or just cannabis in general, or, Hey, my, my mom is looking for CBD for her bad knee.
[00:37:15] Dan Serard: I was the guy to talk to. So I think that was, that was key in terms of my growth is. is really knowing every single thing about that vertical that I could possibly learn. I mean, I'm still, you know, reading books here. You know, this is a book about the fundamentals of legal cannabis industry and, and just owning that vertical, I think is really important for, for anybody in this role is if you have an opportunity to work in a vertical, Learn every single thing about it.
[00:37:46] Dan Serard: It's going to make such a difference. Learn about the industry more than your products, because you're going to learn your products over time. You're not going to learn your industry over time, unless you put that extra effort in.
[00:37:57] Corey Quinn: Can you speak to why that's important?
[00:37:59] Dan Serard: Yeah. From my standpoint, if I get on a call with a product manufacturer for cannabis, which means that they take flour or, you know, dried cannabis products, manufacture that into gummies, and then sell it to a dispensary.
[00:38:13] Dan Serard: It's a very, the chain, the, the supply and the supply chain is very unique. And if I don't know for that product manufacturer, what marketing services work for them, then I'm dead in the water. The person's going to read right through that. So, you know, and, and same thing goes for a dispensary. If I'm saying, Oh, well, do you grow your own flower?
[00:38:34] Dan Serard: That's not how it works. So in order for me to be successful, I need to know how that business operates to be able to provide the best service to them that makes sense. And we see that a lot now where there's a lot of, a lot of companies who are Google advertising, I'll take for an example. It's very hard to do in the cannabis industry and I wouldn't recommend it for all cannabis businesses.
[00:38:56] Dan Serard: It works driving local search traffic to dispensaries. But if you're a cannabis brand, even a major national cannabis brand, it doesn't make sense to run Google ads because you can't buy online. Right? So you won't see any of those conversions because the conversion point happens at the dispensary that brands don't have access to that data.
[00:39:15] Dan Serard: And if I don't know that by learning the industry, I look like an idiot on a sales call.
[00:39:21] Corey Quinn: Yep, you lose credibility. Beautiful, I've got two last questions for you as we wrap up here. And number one is, what would be your party advice, particularly for those agency owners who maybe have taken a generalist approach and are maybe considering maybe one of these high risk verticals, such as cannabis or maybe others that are just, you know, fast, you know, emerging quickly.
[00:39:43] Corey Quinn: What advice would you have for them?
[00:39:45] Dan Serard: Yeah, my best advice is to learn what you can can't do because and and base that on your services. Because if your service offerings don't match with what you can and can't do, then you need to think about your business strategy. So in in high risk industries, alcohol, tobacco, tobacco, Cannabis, there's others, there's a lot of limitations.
[00:40:08] Dan Serard: And if you're in advertising specific agency, you're going to have a very, very hard time. So look at your core service offerings, see if it's even doable. Run some test campaigns, right? Spin up a brand on Fiverr for 500 and see if you can do some stuff. It takes major investment. And that's one thing that I'll, I'll say to Seth is, and something that I'm very, you know, happy that he's been able to do is, is take risks, right?
[00:40:33] Dan Serard: And calculate that risk and reward. And Seth is a very numbers guy. And be able to calculate that risk and say, look, you know, let's try something, see if it works. And here's your budget, stick to this budget, but this is what I have allocated. Show me the ROI and if it works, that's great. If not, move on.
[00:40:51] Corey Quinn: Beautiful. All right, last question. What's your motivation?
[00:40:56] Dan Serard: Yeah. My, my motivation. I mean, I will tell you as a sales professional, I am a money motivated. That's one of the big things. And I really believe that if you're in sales and you're not money motivated, you know, you should probably be looking for something else,
[00:41:10] Corey Quinn: but I agree with that.
[00:41:11] Dan Serard: Something else is, is really, you know, motivation for me is when I hear someone referred to us or had a conversation because, you know, Oh, I talked to the team at Cannabis Creative Group. They're great. They're amazing. Or, you know, Dan helped me out with X, Y, and Z. And seeing that I've been able to help people across the board, not necessarily in their marketing, but either in life, either with their business, or provide an idea to them that they didn't think of, and it comes back to me and I hear that, that's really rewarding to me.
[00:41:45] Dan Serard: So. Hearing that I've been able to help somebody with their business and look, I am not an entrepreneur. I one day would love to be, but if I can help an entrepreneur with some ideas that I have based on the research and knowledge that I have, it's rewarding to me. So seeing that, and obviously You know, seeing the success in the business, knowing that, you know, what's really rewarding is when I look at, you know, we've serviced over 400 cannabis clients and I started six years ago and we had two, I mean that those numbers speak for themselves.
[00:42:12] Dan Serard: So seeing that, you know, progression is really, really interesting for me.
[00:42:18] Corey Quinn: So success overall, you know, monetarily building great relationships, building great brand, all those things. That's awesome, man. Where can people reach out to you if they want to continue the conversation with you?
[00:42:29] Dan Serard: Yeah, definitely.
[00:42:30] Dan Serard: So feel free to, you know, shoot me an email. It's dan at cannabis creative. com or dan at champ internet. com depending on, you know, cannabis or non cannabis both go to me. Uh, and our websites are cannabis creative group. com and champ internet. com. So happy to connect there or on LinkedIn, uh, very active on LinkedIn and, uh, always open to a conversation.
[00:42:52] Corey Quinn: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your experience and wisdom with us, Dan.
[00:42:57] Dan Serard: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Corey. I really appreciate it. It was great talking with you. Likewise.
[00:43:01] Corey Quinn: That's it for today. I'm Corey Quinn, and I hope you join me again next time on the Deep Specialization Podcast.
[00:43:07] Corey Quinn: If you received value from the show, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. Thanks, and we'll see you soon.
