VGTM_Rami Aboud_Full Video
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[00:00:00] Corey: Welcome to the Vertical Go To Market Podcast, where you'll discover new opportunities to grow your business from seven figures to eight from the world's most successful agency and B2B SaaS executives. I'm your host, Corey Quinn. Let's jump into the show. Today. I'm joined by Rami Abood. Welcome Rami.
[00:00:21] Rhami: Hey, Corey.
[00:00:22] So nice being here.
[00:00:23] Corey: I am super excited for our conversation. Could you just share a little bit about yourself and your background to the listening audience?
[00:00:31] Rhami: Yeah, for sure. So I live in Montreal, Canada, and I run a marketing agency. We help SaaS companies scale and get funding. Awesome.
[00:00:39] Corey: And so would you say that your vertical quote unquote, your vertical, your industry focus is SaaS, is that fair?
[00:00:46] Yeah,
[00:00:46] Rhami: absolutely.
[00:00:47] Corey: I've seen on your website and our conversations, you've worked with over 200 SaaS clients over
[00:00:52] Rhami: the years. Yeah, we have. Yeah, it's crazy to think it's been, uh,
[00:00:58] Corey: that's awesome. What can you share about the [00:01:00] company as it is today? Like number of employees or revenue or clients or anything that you'd like to share just for context for the
[00:01:07] Rhami: listeners?
[00:01:08] Yeah, sure. So, uh, we're four years old, started in March, 2020. So right when COVID happened. So we're about 10 people right now. We've been growing steadily. We went from zero to six figures in our first year is the first company I ever started. So I was really proud of that. And we made it to seven figures or we will make it seven figures in year four.
[00:01:30] So that's kind of an idea of where we're at.
[00:01:34] Corey: Oh, that's awesome. So what is, what is your role there as the CEO? What's your day to day like?
[00:01:40] Rhami: Yeah. I mean, what is in my role? Um, so that's a great question. I can go into, into detail here, but basically I'm trying to remove myself as much as possible. Sure. From the operation.
[00:01:51] So in terms of fulfillment, I don't do any of the fulfillment anymore. That, that was, has been off my plate for a long time. Basically my focus right now is on business development and [00:02:00] marketing and sales. So I take our sales calls, but that is being offloaded off my plate in the next few weeks. So I'm super sad because I, I always sucked at sales, not my strong suit, but I worked really hard to get better at it.
[00:02:14] So I took it as a challenge, but I never liked it. So that'll be off my plate soon. And now I can just focus on growing the business, you know, marketing initiatives and, and that kind of thing.
[00:02:24] Corey: One of my mentors and friends talks about the fact that, you know, agency owners in some cases are accidental business owners and that they're technicians.
[00:02:32] They have a passion for web design and web flow in your case and SEO and these things. And then all of a sudden they have, not only do they have the technical expertise, but they're expected to be a manager and a leader and a sales coach and a salesperson and all these things. So it's always interesting to me to hear the stories of how agency owners are sort of evolving themselves and evolving the business.
[00:02:55] We can get into more of that if you'd like. And I'd also love to hear your origin story with [00:03:00] the business.
[00:03:01] Rhami: Sure. Just to touch on something you said, though, Corey, I think it's really important for somebody who's considering starting their own agency, which I never thought of is. If you do want to grow and be successful, I think it is important to take yourself out of it, out of the operations as much as possible.
[00:03:16] But like you said, that means you're not doing the thing that you loved anymore. So like I'm not doing web design and development anymore, which I love. And that's something I never really. Considered until it happened. Now I'm doing a bunch of other stuff. So that is just like a point that I would,
[00:03:33] Corey: sure.
[00:03:33] It sounds like you're in the middle of it. Can I ask you why, why not just focus in on the web web design piece, uh, and the development piece and just hire someone to run other parts of the business.
[00:03:44] Rhami: I mean, I guess you could go that route. It's, I would say it's hard to scale when you do that. Like if you're just doing the fulfillment because like that takes a lot of time and effort.
[00:03:54] So it's hard just to do that and, you know, hire someone to be a CEO for you. I guess you can do that, [00:04:00] but... I don't know. I feel like that would be kind of difficult. The other thing you can do is be, just stay a freelancer. It's a different business model, just stay a freelancer, but, you know, charge way more and take on, you know, just a few clients, but you get to do the thing that you, you know, that you enjoy and that you love.
[00:04:17] Corey: Sure. Now, did you ever, were you ever tempted to go down that road or did you maybe explore that?
[00:04:23] Rhami: So I wasn't aware of what I was doing when I started the agency. I wasn't aware that that would happen. Like I, I started the agency. I wanted to, you know, serve as many people as I could and scale up. So that was my goal starting it.
[00:04:36] And, uh, so I figured I needed to take myself out of the operations and the fulfillment. And I did that. But then I didn't realize that I would miss doing that. So it's kind of, uh, like I don't remember. I'm like, I enjoy what I'm doing now. Like I'm, I'm looking at these new challenges that I never had to face before, like sales.
[00:04:54] I enjoyed learning sales and I enjoyed doing it for a while, but I've been doing the sales for over three years [00:05:00] now and it's time to hand it off to someone else. I enjoy the new marketing challenges. I enjoy figuring out how to get more leads. I enjoy the challenge of it. I guess everything evolves and your desires change a little bit.
[00:05:11] Sure.
[00:05:11] Corey: Well, from my experience, I'll know, I know that there's no one who's going to care about the success of the business more than the founder, right? And so you have to maintain that elevation so that you're not lost in the weeds a little bit. So.
[00:05:25] Rhami: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:05:26] Corey: Yeah. So you started out previous to four years ago, I believe you started out your career, maybe white by Photoshopping Backstreet Boys, Backstreet Boys photos.
[00:05:36] Tell us about where you started, what was your path and how did you get to a seven figure web design business?
[00:05:43] Rhami: Sure. So kind of a long story, no shame. Bachelor Boys aren't my favorite band. I'll admit that. And everyone that, that knows me. That's awesome. That, yeah, that's great. So basically, the story starts when I was 13.
[00:05:55] Mm-Hmm. . Okay. So I, I was born and raised in Ottawa, Canada. [00:06:00] When I was 13, my mom got moved to Mexico for work. So we, me and my family went to Mexico for one year for, because she had to go to work there. And that was when I first took my, I took my first web design course. So that's where it all started. I learned web design and development.
[00:06:16] So back then, like we were coding in HTML and CSS, JavaScript, all that. And I just fell in love with it back then. So that's. That's where I got my passion for web design. And from that moment on, I was just kind of making websites on my own as a hobby. Just, you know, for fun. Fast forward to university. I studied electrical engineering.
[00:06:36] I worked as an engineer for a few years, but I always hated it. It wasn't creative enough for me. And so in my early twenties, I decided to quit engineering and I went back to school and got a web design and development degree.
[00:06:48] Corey: So, oh, wait, there's a degree for web
[00:06:50] Rhami: design and development. Yeah, yeah, there's uh, there's lots.
[00:06:53] Oh my goodness. Yeah, I did it online.
[00:06:55] Corey: That's awesome. Why it's been a while since I've been in college. So that's, uh, that's not surprising, [00:07:00] but that's the first I've heard of that.
[00:07:01] Rhami: Yeah. Fair enough. Now there's actually a lot of like UX design bootcamps that you can do. I'm sure. I'm sure. And I don't know, self taught also these days is I think the way to go.
[00:07:09] And yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. So I, I got my degree in web design development. I worked for a few years in the corporate world until I was 30. And then when I was 30, I went through a breakup and that really kind of like shifted my perspective and. Really made me chase my dreams or gave me the push to finally chase my dreams.
[00:07:30] Cause I always wanted to start my own business and I always wanted to travel the world. So I wasn't really doing that until then. The breakup really gave me the push. I quit my job and I started traveling. I lived like the whole digital nomad lifestyle. So I went to, you know, like Bali, Europe, Nicaragua, San Diego.
[00:07:49] I lived in San Diego for a while. Yeah, so I kind of just, you know, did the whole travel thing and I started freelancing as a web designer and developer while you were traveling. While I [00:08:00] was traveling,
[00:08:00] Corey: that's awesome. First off, let me interrupt you. Any favorite stories from your, your digital nomad life?
[00:08:05] Sounds like you may have settled down. You may have settled down a little bit now living in, uh, in Ottawa, but any stories come to
[00:08:12] Rhami: mind? Yes. Let me think, which there's so many, I would say one crazy one. I was in Lisbon for their, like their holy festival day. So they, you know, they're very religious over there, mostly Catholic.
[00:08:28] So they have a festival for one of their religious figures. Okay. So I was there, I had no idea what was going. I'm like, okay, whatever. It's just another, you know, holiday. But at night, I don't know if you've ever been to Lisbon, the streets are kind of like narrow it. It's really, it's a really cute city in, in Portugal and the streets are very narrow and basically at night, the entire city goes outside and parties.
[00:08:51] So it would just be crazy. There was literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people outside. Like everywhere you go, it's just jam packed with people. I've never seen [00:09:00] this anywhere in my life. That's awesome. And so we were there during that festival. Like it was, it was so much fun. Like we were just outside, you know, drinking, eating sardines.
[00:09:08] Cause they were grilling sardines on the barbecues and you know, that's what they do over there. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So that was, that was a lot of fun. There's, there's a lot of other ones as well, but
[00:09:17] Corey: I'm sure I kind of put you on the spot, but that, that reminds me of being in Prague. It was a similar thing where it was just people in the streets all night long, having a great time.
[00:09:25] It's just, yeah, it's a, it's a fun, fun experience. All right. So you're, you're a digital nomad back to the original story. You're a digital nomad starting to freelance. And, and is this like up on a, on Upwork, Fiverr, you know, those types of jobs. And so what type of gigs were you doing?
[00:09:39] Rhami: Basically anything I could get, like I was just barely getting by.
[00:09:42] I remember I got really lucky when I first started, I got a job at this company called STN digital as a web developer, and they did their clients were people like the NFL, NASCAR, MLB. So that was super cool. That kind of kept me afloat for a while. And actually this is a great tip for people applying to [00:10:00] jobs.
[00:10:00] If anyone's listening, the way I got that job is I saw the posting and I didn't just send them my resume. I remade their website and sent it to them. Nice. Oh, that caught me. Yeah. So that's, you know, on a tip, if you're looking for a job, you know, try to go above and beyond or, you know, get, show that you can do the job instead of.
[00:10:20] Yes.
[00:10:20] Corey: I'm a, I'm a fan of that. That's awesome. And, and, and obviously led to a, a, a role there, which is great. Yeah. I
[00:10:27] Rhami: got like a contracting gig, my first contracting gig. And, uh, you know, I kind of was able to get by based on that. And then eventually that went away and I had to start figuring out how to. Get clients.
[00:10:38] So Upwork was actually the first place that I figured out how to get a consistent stream of leads from. So that's awesome there. And then, yeah. And so basically I went from a freelancer, I was struggling, barely getting by for two, three years. And then I figured out how to get leads and, uh, in March, 2020, uh, had enough leads that I could hire people.
[00:10:57] So I made my first two hires, [00:11:00] designer, a developer, and that's when the agency was born. So,
[00:11:03] Corey: and that, I imagine that's when you begin to bring in people more, what I call who's around you to execute some of the work while you're out focusing on not only developing new clients, but also making sure the product is, is great at the same time.
[00:11:16] Rhami: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I took on more of a project manager role at that point. And the marketing stuff as well.
[00:11:23] Corey: So as you were starting, when you were doing gigs on, let's say Fiverr, what type of clients, was it all SaaS at that time, or were you kind of just doing anything that would come that would, you know, that would be within the scope of your expertise?
[00:11:37] Rhami: Yeah, great question. So. At first I was doing anything I was doing, like anything I could get my hands on that I, that I could land that would pay me money. I would do it. It doesn't matter if it was websites, like email marketing, Facebook ads, SEO, I tried everything, but it wasn't working out too well for me.
[00:11:54] It was hard. Like I wasn't giving great results, which I hated and all that. And then I made a [00:12:00] decision. I'm like, okay. What am I very good at and what do I love to do? And Webflow came up. So I don't know if you're familiar with Webflow, but it's a development platform. It's a competitor to WordPress and it's a no code tool.
[00:12:13] And I absolutely loved Webflow at the time, still do. And so I kind of niched down into helping people with their Webflow sites. Okay, so that was the first, the first avenue.
[00:12:26] Corey: Can I, can I ask a question? So where, whereas, 'cause Webflow was, was it, it was just coming up at this time as well, right? Yeah. And so was, was Webflow, was there a demand for a Webflow development or developer specialist or designer or whatever, however you characterize it.
[00:12:40] Was there enough demand there or how did that.
[00:12:42] Rhami: Yeah. Great question. Not as much as there is today, but I think that kind of helped me because there's also less competition out there. Yeah. So Webflow came out about seven or eight years ago and I was very lucky. I found it the first year it came out and I was just like, wow, this is amazing.
[00:12:56] I went through all their tutorials, learned it as much as I could. And just, [00:13:00] you know, became very proficient at it. So that was like the first thing that I niched down into is just like specialized specialized into Webflow. Yep. Beautiful. So yeah, so on Upwork, I would just look for people looking for Webflow sites and I would reach out to them.
[00:13:13] So after that, I was like, okay, I need to niche down a little bit more. Like Webflow is great. We're definitely gonna keep on Webflow, but I want to, who do I want to work with? Like. Cause you know, anyone can make a web flow site, but I wanted to work with a specific type of person. So I'm like, who do I want to work with?
[00:13:27] What would I enjoy doing? So for myself, I've always loved technology. I've always loved soft software. Like I'm kind of a geek as well. So that kind of pushed me towards the software path, software as a service. And it also was kind of lucky because I had a few clients that I'd worked with that were SaaS companies themselves.
[00:13:47] So yeah, it just kind of worked out. I wanted, I figured out that I wanted to work in the SaaS niche and meanwhile, I had already worked with a few, so it just, you know, kind of came together and that's how that was born. Can we break
[00:13:59] Corey: that down [00:14:00] just for a minute here? So you, you were specialized in Webflow, you were on Upwork and you were looking for gigs around people who had a job around, you know, a Webflow type of website, and then what, what caused you to.
[00:14:15] Decide to start narrowing, not only on what you do, which was Webflow, but who you do it for. Like what, what, what was going on in your mind? Like what was happening in the business that made that shift
[00:14:25] Rhami: priority? Yeah, sure. So to start with Webflow, why did I choose Webflow? Because I was doing so many different things.
[00:14:31] I'm like, I can never become great at five different things. I can become great at one thing maybe, but not five at once. So that's where I decided to just focus on Webflow because I wanted to be great at it. I wanted to enjoy what I was doing. And I wanted to provide great results, so I knew I could do those three things with Webflow.
[00:14:51] Okay. And then that's the first part. Now, the second part is again, same criteria. So I wanted to find an audience that I could help and follow [00:15:00] those three criteria. So who do I enjoy working with? SaaS companies. And I wasn't great at serving them yet, but I knew that I had the passion to. If I had more time, more experience that I could become very good at it.
[00:15:13] So that was kind of my thought process around that.
[00:15:18] Corey: Why not just, just work with anybody who wants a Webflow website?
[00:15:21] Rhami: Yeah, because at the end of the day, why did I quit my job that gave me security and, you know, making a good salary and all that was because I want to enjoy my life. I want to enjoy what I was doing.
[00:15:32] If you're going to be working, you know, 40 to 60 hours a week, like my mind, in my mind, you have to enjoy it or else you're wasting so much of your life. So, I just wanted to do more things that I enjoy doing and with people that I enjoy, you know, being around.
[00:15:47] Corey: That's awesome. So how did you build the agency through SAS?
[00:15:53] Now that you had a new focus aligned with your passions, your, your experience, you had a couple of clients and it was, you were getting great results for them. [00:16:00] What did you do to really build the SAS focus in the agency? As far as number of clients.
[00:16:07] Rhami: So this is maybe not fully related to your question, but I think it ties in.
[00:16:11] So when we first started, I was getting most of our leads through Upwork and I was very lucky. I found a coach who showed me how to do that. So I remember I paid 500, which at the time I thought was a lot, but since then I've paid a lot more for coaches, but yeah, I paid 500. I remember, and he showed me how to get a lead on Upwork and that was, you know, game changing for me.
[00:16:38] So yeah, I'm forever grateful for that. And that's how we started. And then how did we build in a SaaS focus? So it kind of just over time, we started changing the messaging on the website, the messaging for our marketing material. Like as I'm sure you know, Corey, like the more focused you can be in your marketing, the easier it is to target people.
[00:16:57] And where I thought the opposite, I'm like, Oh, like if [00:17:00] I, if I niche down into this specific audience, I'm going to get less clients because there's less people I can help, but it's really the opposite. Which I don't know, it may sound counterintuitive or intuitive for some people. I'm not sure, but yeah, no,
[00:17:12] Corey: there's, there's definitely a sense of loss aversion, like when you're narrowing a big market into a small market, you're like, Oh gosh, I'm just going to be starving.
[00:17:21] Rhami: Yeah, exactly. But it helps you target, target them more efficiently. So the first thing was in our messaging. So our marketing messages are a copy on the website. That's kind of how we changed it. And then. Just everything became more like sassy. So now, you know, four years later, everything is completely tailored to helping SaaS companies.
[00:17:42] So we have frameworks like design frameworks for the website. We have product illustrations that we can put on the website, explainer videos, everything geared towards helping SaaS companies. Because, you know, it's just based on experience and, and data, pretty
[00:17:58] Corey: much. Do all of your new [00:18:00] business still come through Upwork or do you, do you know?
[00:18:03] So how did that evolve over
[00:18:04] Rhami: time? Yeah, great question. So yeah, at first it was all through Upwork and now I would say we get, maybe we still use it, but we get probably five to 7 percent of our leads through Upwork at this point. It's mainly through SEO. So through, through our website. That's our main lead source right now.
[00:18:22] Yeah. We've, we've dabbled in a bunch of different things, uh, like cold email, outbound, uh, paid ads, gotten good results, but SEO, like SEO is the foundation of our, of our marketing
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[00:19:26] com. That's getoutboundroi. com. Now back to the show. And let me, I'll just assume that people are searching for not your brand necessarily, but they may be searching for more of a sort of non brand keyword that's related to the services you provide.
[00:19:43] Rhami: Right, exactly. Like SaaS website or SaaS website in Canada.
[00:19:47] Like, you know, those are like a couple of keywords that we rank for.
[00:19:51] Corey: That's awesome. So you, you basically dominate the, the, the primary money keywords and that's been really a great support to your business.
[00:19:58] Rhami: Yeah, [00:20:00] exactly. I always tell people, like friends, clients, anyone, I strongly believe SEO should be the foundation of any marketing strategy because it's inbound organic leads, first of all, which are, they're searching for you.
[00:20:12] They're already problem aware. You're not reaching out to them. So that's, that already helps you sell them and close them more easily. And it just goes over time. It's like a snowball. The more you put into it, the more you get out. And it's a great long term growth strategy.
[00:20:26] Corey: Within the world of SEO today, let's say there's a version of you that's four years ago, it's just starting out.
[00:20:33] Maybe getting some traction with doing some freelancing. What type of, where should they, within the world of SEO, like how should they be thinking about SEO for their own startup agency and where, where, where are the bets that they should be making?
[00:20:45] Rhami: Do you think? Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So with any SEO strategy, basically you want to figure out number one, who you're servicing, who's, who's your audience.
[00:20:54] So like for us, SaaS companies, you can get even more niche than that. You can be like B2B SaaS. B2B Fintech [00:21:00] SaaS, I don't know how niche do you want to get, but you can do, you do that. And then a big part of it is doing market research and figuring out what pain points your customer has. This is good for any marketing strategy.
[00:21:12] This will help you for, for all of your messaging also, but finding out their pain points. And then you can come up with basically, you want to do some keyword research to figure out. You know, what keywords you want to rank for basically. And there's tools to help you with that by looking at, you know, the search volume that people are searching for, for those keywords, how competitive it is to rank for it, because it's, it's hard to compete for certain keywords with like the big guys.
[00:21:40] Yeah. So you find like a good balance between volume and competition. And then, uh, yeah, I would just. Just have some sort of keyword strategy and then start creating content around those keywords. Cause, uh, kind of like to your point, four years ago, if I can go back in time, I would put a lot more effort [00:22:00] into our SEO.
[00:22:02] What would that look like? Yeah, exactly. Well, like some of the things I just mentioned now, having like a keyword strategy, creating topical maps for your website, and then just start pumping out content, valuable content around those keywords to get you, get you ranking.
[00:22:18] Corey: Does word of mouth play a role in generating new clients for your agency?
[00:22:22] Rhami: Everyone says it is, but for us, not so much. We don't get a lot of word of mouth clients because maybe because of our audience, which are SaaS companies, like my dad doesn't know any SaaS companies, for example. Sure. Of course. But that doesn't really help. We do have a referral program, which we get a good amount of business from, from like, you know,
[00:22:43] just word of mouth from like family and friends, not so much.
[00:22:46] Corey: Sure. But so far, but, but, but yes, to the degree where past clients are, are referring their colleagues in the, in the
[00:22:53] Rhami: space, which is, yeah, it's a big
[00:22:57] Corey: honor. So have you hired, did you, [00:23:00] do you employ, I should say a salesperson at the company?
[00:23:04] Rhami: I've tried salespeople in the past has not gone well.
[00:23:07] However, we are trying a new sales strategy where we have our head of growth. His name is Chris. So he's going to be taking the sales calls for me. Okay. Cause we have a two call close. So we have call one and then call two in the past. I've done both. Chris is going to be doing call one and it's going to be more value based.
[00:23:26] He, so exactly. So he loves talking strategy. He loves, you know, talking all that kind of stuff. And he's very quick and he can find things can find leaks.
[00:23:42] So we just decided last week that he's going to be taking the first call and just giving us as much value as we possibly can on that call. And then, you know, if it makes sense to go into the second call, then we will do that and we can give them a proposal on that one. Who is
[00:23:56] Corey: your ICP? Like, like within SaaS, like who, who is, who are you [00:24:00] selling to?
[00:24:00] Or who's buying from you? It's
[00:24:02] Rhami: typically, uh, funded SaaS companies, anywhere in the 20 to a hundred person range, 20 to a hundred person employee, a hundred employees.
[00:24:12] Corey: And what's the problem they're coming to you with? Like, what's the, like, what, what, what are you, what are they trying to solve? Yeah.
[00:24:17] Rhami: Yeah, in a nutshell, they need more users.
[00:24:20] So it's, it's, you know, like any company that they need more users and they need to retain the current users that they have. So those are the two big problems we see. They're not getting enough traffic on the website, or if they are getting a lot of traffic, the website sucks. It doesn't represent how awesome their product is, like the website looks, you know, really ugly or something like that.
[00:24:41] So those are some of the main challenges that we're seeing from our
[00:24:45] Corey: clients. That's interesting. It's funny. Cause when I was thinking about this is like design and you're helping them to really position themselves and uniquely in the market to a degree with their design. But what I'm hearing you say is that they have a much more functional need with the website.
[00:24:59] [00:25:00] They're coming to you and saying, our website's not converting. Um, And we need someone who knows Webflow potentially, but also who knows how to build a converting website because, you know, we're not there yet.
[00:25:11] Rhami: Yeah, exactly. High converting website, get, get more traffic to the website and then just kind of help us with our messaging.
[00:25:18] Cause messaging is, is super important. Probably one of the most important conversion mechanisms out there.
[00:25:24] Corey: Yeah. How do you approach that? Like, how do you help them fix their
[00:25:27] Rhami: messaging? Yeah. So we have. The way we do it there, there's a couple of ways. So the most important part of a website is the homepage and not only the homepage of the hero section on the homepage, which is the first section you see when it loads up, right?
[00:25:43] So when that loads up, typically there's an offer or, you know, something that tells you about what that product does. Now that is by far the most important part of the website. We call it our killer offer workshop. So we have a workshop where we help all of our clients [00:26:00] create killer offers. Okay. So they can put them on the homepage hero section and they can also use it for their marketing materials, for their Facebook ads, for their, you know, cold emails, whatever.
[00:26:10] So these killer offers. These are the number one most important piece of the website or their marketing in general. So we have a workshop with them where we come up with killer offers and we have a bunch, not just one, we have five to 10 that we test out and we keep tweaking until they're more optimized.
[00:26:26] So that's one way we help with Cori. The other thing we do is we, we write the copy for the website. So the copy is super important and we have two options. So we have a package where they can do the copy themselves. We give them an outline, but. If we really want to help someone, like I really advise them to do the copy with us because it's such an important conversion mechanism.
[00:26:49] So those, that's the second way that we help. So we can create the entire copy for them. That's
[00:26:54] Corey: awesome. Do you productize your service? So you mentioned you have a two call close. I imagine there's some [00:27:00] uncovering and maybe some customization, but is it primarily productized your product that you sell?
[00:27:04] Rhami: So.
[00:27:05] Not really. No, it, here's the thing, like we tried going that route, but I found that it wasn't good enough for our clients. So we have frameworks. Yes, that they're not really templates, that we already know are highly converting. And what I mean by frameworks is web design frameworks for how the site should be structured and laid out.
[00:27:30] So we have that in place and that is a huge piece of what we offer. But on top of the framework for every client, it's fully customized because every single client is unique and different. Even if they're a B2B SaaS, two B2B SaaS's could be completely different and unique, for example. So we have basically a fully customized layer on top of that in terms of both the design and the messaging as well.
[00:27:54] Cause like I said, the messaging is one of the most important pieces as well as the design. Those two [00:28:00] things playing together. You can, you know, get really optimized and really customized and the website can, will convert highly if those two pieces are in sync. Done properly.
[00:28:10] Corey: That's awesome. Would you, would it be fair to say, as a leading question, I apologize in advance, but would you, would you, would you say that if you had not specialized in SaaS, would you be able to provide that type of guidance to your clients in such a way that, hey, they're coming to you with a need for not just a great website, but a converting website.
[00:28:27] Would you, would the impact of what you do be the same if you were just a generalist?
[00:28:32] Rhami: No, definitely not. Uh, like we, I've seen it in the past. Uh, we've done websites where. For non SaaS companies, like years ago, we used to do that. And the conversion rates weren't that great. You know, that maybe the website looked a lot better, but it wasn't converting.
[00:28:47] And I didn't know why. And then I figured out why it was because, because of these reasons.
[00:28:54] Corey: So what advice do you have for, let's say an agency owner? Maybe they're just [00:29:00] getting going. Maybe they're a generalist today. They're thinking about verticalizing. What would you, what advice would you have for them as they think through this, this approach?
[00:29:10] Rhami: Yeah, I'd say do it, like do it as soon as you can. It might, it might be a short term loss or short term less revenue in the short term, but in the long run, it's going to be so much easier for you. It's going to make your internal processes so much easier, which is very important. It'll make. Your fulfillment time is much quicker, which means more profit.
[00:29:31] So in the long run, it's super important. It'll make your marketing a lot easier to do. It'll just improve every aspect of your business and you'll be able to get much better results for your clients, which is, you know, ideally the number one reason why you're in business. I love
[00:29:45] Corey: the way you think. So two more quick questions here as we wrap up.
[00:29:48] Number one, I think you've, you mentioned to me that you've started an additional business. Could you share, share a little bit about what that work is and, and the type of people you work with?
[00:29:57] Rhami: Yeah, for sure, Corey. So it's really in the infancy right [00:30:00] now. Like it's still an ideation phase. Basically what I'm trying to do is, and this is completely different from the marketing agency, uh, for SaaS companies.
[00:30:09] So basically what I see out there is I see a lot of people that are unhappy, unfulfilled, don't really have a sense of purpose or walking around like on autopilot. And I want to help those people. So. Like, for example, I know a few members of my family who seem great on the outside, but they've taken leaves of absence from work because they were depressed and they had to get a doctor's note and they couldn't work for two months.
[00:30:35] And like, it was shocking to me because like, from the outside, like I know them well and they seem so, they seem happy, but they obviously were struggling internally. And I feel like so many people just don't have this sense of purpose. Like everyone's just like going to work, making money, just like getting by, coming home, watching TV, you know, and I want to help [00:31:00] people just feel more alive and feel more fulfilled again.
[00:31:03] And I think what's lacking these days is a lot of people are very selfish, myself included. And I think I think everyone's purpose is related to helping others in some way, some way, shape, or form. And it can come in a million different varieties. But I think once you shift the focus back on how can I help other people, that will lead to more purpose, more fulfillment, more happiness overall in your life.
[00:31:31] So I'm creating a business to help people. Find themselves again and find what they're really meant to do and how they can help other people. Right now I'm calling it the superhero journey. Uh, I'm a huge nerd. I love superheroes and, and all that stuff. So it's like the superhero journey, creating it is still in the process of being built.
[00:31:52] Super early stages, but yeah, that's something I'm working on. I'm super passionate about it. And I think it's going to help a lot of people. That's
[00:31:59] Corey: awesome. [00:32:00] I love everything you've just said about that. And I'm excited to support you however I can in that group. So if any listeners are responding to that or if that, uh, that hits you in a special way, definitely, Rami?
[00:32:16] Rhami: Yeah, please do. Uh, you can check out my Instagram. So I think you can link it in the show notes. My handle is Rami underscore AX. Yeah. So hit me up on there. I'm happy to chat. If, if any of that resonates, like, yeah, hit me up even just for support or advice. You know, that's what I'm here for.
[00:32:32] Corey: That's awesome.
[00:32:33] And you know, not to mention you've built an amazing web design development company for SAS businesses. You have a lot of years now built into your product, which is awesome. It's super focused and specialized on this audience. So another call to action if folks are in the SAS business and they are looking, if they're struggling with a low converting website, definitely give Rami a call as well.
[00:32:56] I think that would be a good use of your time.
[00:32:58] Rhami: Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that, [00:33:00] Corey. And also, just in addition, we do have an awesome new guide we just put out. Oh, yeah. Please. Yeah. 38 page guide on how to make your website convert better, specifically made for SaaS companies. Has a ton of value, ton of content.
[00:33:12] Mentioned some of the stuff I mentioned today. And much more. It's completely free. So check it out. Uh, again, it should be linked in the show notes. Yeah, it will
[00:33:21] Corey: be in the show notes. Great. Thank you so much for coming on, Rami. It was a really great conversation.
[00:33:26] Rhami: Yeah. Thank you, Corey. I really appreciate it.
[00:33:28] And thank you so much for having me.
[00:33:30] Corey: Absolutely. All right, folks, that's it for today. I'm Corey Quinn, and I hope you join me again next time for the Vertical Go To Market Podcast. If you receive value from the show, I would love a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks, and we'll see you soon.
